gintonic
50 shades of grey pussy cats
they don't matter to the leasee IME. All people look at is the monthly repayment and whether that fits in the budget. How the monthly repayment is derived is of little interest.
Should I buy an EV - real world advice needed.
- Thread starter beammeup
- Start date
they don't matter to the leasee IME. All people look at is the monthly repayment and whether that fits in the budget. How the monthly repayment is derived is of little interest.
Ponty
pfm Member
5 variables to determine the payment, that’s all. Present value, future value, interest rate, time and period. If the future value is significantly reduced because the lessor foresees a far lower resale value at the end of term, it matters.
gingermrkettle
Deep vein trombonist
Ah, the "everyone else is having a dump in the hedge so it doesn't matter if I drop some litter there as well" argument.
Ponty
pfm Member
I foresee a time when popping out 4 or 5 kids will be seen as unacceptable as doing the West London school run in a Hummer.
Aethelist
pfm Member
Nah. The problem is that we need enough kids to work and contribute for at least 38 years to pay for our state pensions (current rate)
I'm due to start receiving my State pension shortly (after quite a few years more than 38 of contributions) and a new car will be needed when the wife also retires. We've absolutely loved the Tesla M3 we've had as a company car for the last 2 1/2 years or so. Been faultless. Never needed a service or anything in that time.
How some manufacturers still get away with a service required every 12 months on an EV in this day and age is just beyond me. Is it just to keep the dealerships happy? They don't need to change the oil or whatever else they purport to do as a requirement for the ownership experience. Just a complete rip off IMO.
We're thinking of buying the Tesla from the lease company and will get a quote soon. The killer will obviously be the insurance cost and I'm fully expecting the worst (given what I've been reading from private owners)
I'm due to start receiving my State pension shortly (after quite a few years more than 38 of contributions) and a new car will be needed when the wife also retires. We've absolutely loved the Tesla M3 we've had as a company car for the last 2 1/2 years or so. Been faultless. Never needed a service or anything in that time.
How some manufacturers still get away with a service required every 12 months on an EV in this day and age is just beyond me. Is it just to keep the dealerships happy? They don't need to change the oil or whatever else they purport to do as a requirement for the ownership experience. Just a complete rip off IMO.
We're thinking of buying the Tesla from the lease company and will get a quote soon. The killer will obviously be the insurance cost and I'm fully expecting the worst (given what I've been reading from private owners)
But like he said, if all the manufacturers are promising huge leaps in tech soon why would you buy one now and be left holding the Betamax of the EV world?
I agree that most of his points are just niggly ones that wouldn't apply to most normal people, but being as wealthy as he is and the amount of long EU road trips and holidays he does I think the range argument is a valid one. Even if you can plan your journey around charging it would soon get boring having to stop for a charge every 200 miles or so.
I hate all SUVs so you couldn't give me one, but I guess a RR is something the Chipping Norton set simply must have.
6. Margin.
NeilR
pfm Member
I suspect the reality is that the gains will be incremental so a good EV now will still be a decent one in 5 years.
Ponty
pfm Member
Included in the PV and / or IR.
Somafunk
pfm Member
A few pages back I posted up about visiting an MG dealership and taking an MG EV XPower out for a test drive (quite nippy) and ordering my new MG HS 1.5 DCT motability car as my VW Tiguan was due to go back, I picked up my MG today and drove it 30 miles home, if anyone is thinking of buying one………Don’t, just don’t, take the bus instead. If you could buy a car on temu the MG HS is what I imagine you’d end up getting delivered.
I would have ordered another Tiguan specced as mine was but they are now £3299+ down payment which I don’t have, I also checked every other car/suv manufacturer on motability that had a similar seat height and spec to my Tiguan and the cheapest was £2000+, again out of my budget. The MG had a very similar spec to my Tiguan and similar seat height but was £0 down payment, so was the only option.
Cool story eh?
ps, don’t buy one, don’t even bother test driving one, if you walk past an MG showroom then I advise turning around and finding another route
I would have ordered another Tiguan specced as mine was but they are now £3299+ down payment which I don’t have, I also checked every other car/suv manufacturer on motability that had a similar seat height and spec to my Tiguan and the cheapest was £2000+, again out of my budget. The MG had a very similar spec to my Tiguan and similar seat height but was £0 down payment, so was the only option.
Cool story eh?
ps, don’t buy one, don’t even bother test driving one, if you walk past an MG showroom then I advise turning around and finding another route
And in another ten years VHS will be gone to. Who knows what cars will be available in, let's say 20 years. Less than 15 years ago we wouldn't even have this conversation as EV's (virtually) didn't exist.
Bananahead
pfm Member
Is it the colour that you don't like?A few pages back I posted up about visiting an MG dealership and taking an MG EV XPower out for a test drive (quite nippy) and ordering my new MG HS 1.5 DCT motability car as my VW Tiguan was due to go back, I picked up my MG today and drove it 30 miles home, if anyone is thinking of buying one………Don’t, just don’t, take the bus instead. If you could buy a car on temu the MG HS is what I imagine you’d end up getting delivered.
I would have ordered another Tiguan specced as mine was but they are now £3299+ down payment which I don’t have, I also checked every other car/suv manufacturer on motability that had a similar seat height and spec to my Tiguan and the cheapest was £2000+, again out of my budget. The MG had a very similar spec to my Tiguan and similar seat height but was £0 down payment, so was the only option.
Cool story eh?
ps, don’t buy one, don’t even bother test driving one, if you walk past an MG showroom then I advise turning around and finding another route
richardg
Admonishtrator
Imagine what would happen if the manufacturers were forced to put % of battery life remaining next to the mileometer, something they should be doing. The capability is there to do it yet they are hiding it by not showing it, and that stinks. Why would a used car dealer / buyer take the risk?
I'm seeing electric Fiat 500s on eBay, less than 3 years old, less than 20,000 miles at half price. And I'm still not buying one because I don't know how much battery has died. That is by far the main reason for me.
I'm seeing electric Fiat 500s on eBay, less than 3 years old, less than 20,000 miles at half price. And I'm still not buying one because I don't know how much battery has died. That is by far the main reason for me.
A used car dealer can plug in their scanner and read the state of health of the battery.
And %SOH doesn’t really tell you how long the battery will last. It’s just a number to consider. The number of stamps in a service book isn’t going to tell you how many miles before the engine goes pop.
And %SOH doesn’t really tell you how long the battery will last. It’s just a number to consider. The number of stamps in a service book isn’t going to tell you how many miles before the engine goes pop.
gingermrkettle
Deep vein trombonist
Presumably you also want dyno reports and compression readings for ICE cars to show how much the engine has deteriorated?
richardg
Admonishtrator
It's not just about when it goes pop, the EV has the additional problem of a decreasing number of miles available per charge as each year passes. Thats' absolutely rubbish. Harry Metcalfe has just traded his ev suv in for a diesel Range Rover, partly becasue he noted after 2 years he was getting less miles per charge. When he took it in for a service they were not able to readily tell him how much batrtery he had lost in the two years of ownership. The difference in purchase price was also too much.
I dont recall my 12 year old BMW giving me any less per tank after 5 years ow ownership. The quoted figures for new cars are already way off reality, so you dont relly know what you have got until you buy or have a demo for a weekend. So as each year passes you are getting less and less out of your car before the extra incovenience of more frequent fill-ups becomes apparent. That doesn't happen anywhere near as much with ICE cars. They sometimes drop a couple of mpg and burn a bit more oil. But we are seeing some EVs with half the battery gone after 10 years, 3% per year seems to be considered good. It's not good. Rare cases show 6% after 10 years. That should be the minimuim for all cars
You can't have a hope of estimating from new, when fast-charging people or frequent top-up people or people living in hot countries are ruining the battery more quickly.
Here is a nerd that assesses batteries for a hobby it seems. I keyword searched 'degradation' in his channel, as it seems to capture all the vidoes where he is seeing how healthy a battery is over time.
The whole thing has such a long way to go that I suspect I will never have one.
Still too expensive after all these years
Still too inconvenient to charge after all these years
Still no clarity on battery life after all these years
Residuals are suddenly a night mare
I've said here several times that lithium battery cars will peak like CDs after less than 20 years. Then the next best will come along and the lithium battery cars will be worth bugger all without some really expensive new battery technology conversion. Has it already peaked in the UK market, or is it a blip? Well I am glad I do not have one on my drive, waiting to find out!
Not that long ago 20k miles was considered pretty reasonable for a fairly major engine overhaul. This was with a good 60or so years development of the ICE engine in passenger vehicles. I don’t think that is so different to 50% range reduction in 10 years, on a tech that is 20years old (lithium cells in cars).
Yes it’s not mature technology. But also the modern consumer market isn’t trying to make long life EVs (look at tesla for that business model). They are a high tech consumable item, closer to a mobile phone than an industrial heirloom. An expensive one, but the model is you buy a car, use it, dispose of it and buy a new one, longevity, resale and residuals are not the manufacturers main concerns.
It’s a crap business model I agree and I do not like it at all, but it makes money and ensures the gears of industry keep turning.
Edit: and I agree lithium may have peaked, we are looking at sodium now, the cells are available in small quantities. Again it’s a very fast moving technology, constantly evolving.
Yes it’s not mature technology. But also the modern consumer market isn’t trying to make long life EVs (look at tesla for that business model). They are a high tech consumable item, closer to a mobile phone than an industrial heirloom. An expensive one, but the model is you buy a car, use it, dispose of it and buy a new one, longevity, resale and residuals are not the manufacturers main concerns.
It’s a crap business model I agree and I do not like it at all, but it makes money and ensures the gears of industry keep turning.
Edit: and I agree lithium may have peaked, we are looking at sodium now, the cells are available in small quantities. Again it’s a very fast moving technology, constantly evolving.
Ponty
pfm Member
Manufacturers do care about residuals because they are a key factor in determining a lease cost (as well as perceived brand value). On the basis so many people don’t use their own money to buy a car, this is important and how the Germans took market share from Ford etc. You could drive a 3 series for the same payment as a Mondeo, so people did.