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Reclocking USB signals - significant improvement !

Ive never knowingly heard any innuous stuff. I'm just interested in if you think it makes a difference, and if so with what kit. Any product will do, just list the combos you try.
 
Fourlegs said:
OK, as this is the Phoenix reclocker thread and to get the ball rolling before I feedback with my listening thoughts, the Phoenix reclocker is meant as an add on to the Innuos Zenith range of servers to take them on the way towards the performance and sound of the Statement server.

To understand the audience, can I have a little feedback first of all whether people generally accept that there is a difference in sound quality between the different Innuos servers and whether they agree that the sound of the Statement server is the best sound quality. It would perhaps be useful if people could say whether they have heard the Statemnet server and if so whether they were able to compare it to any others in the same system and using the same DAC etc?
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I've never heard an Innuos, I heard a topflight Melco playing into a 30-40K system at a dealers though. thought my system sounded better, i use a NAS drive as you would a deidcated music server for both USB audio and streaming over Ethernet:

Roon & Asset6.4 (UPNP/DLNA) Server:
QNAP TS-251+8GB RAM & 2x1TB Sandisk ultra II SSDs
Teddy Pardo Dual 12v LPSU
TP-Link Archer VR-900 Switch/Router

For roon i take USB out from the NAS to the amps USB input via a 1m silver plated 6N copper cable.
For Asset 6.4: i take Ethernet out from the NAS to the switch (via a 0.5m cable) then form the switch to the amps Ethernet input via a 1m cable.

Cables are:
USB cable: Nobility Eagle E-580US
Network cables: Metz CAT-7 MC GC1000 Plus23
 
My father in law listened to an Innuos, not sure which one but it was expensive. He said it was good but didn't displace his current set up, a fettled Vortexbox.
 
I’ve heard they (Innuos) are very good, but also readily improved by first decoding then recoding their digital output.

Ironically, That new improved reclocked output is then in turn reclocked (again) by the receiving DACs on board chip, before making its way to your amp and speakers.

I guess if Innuos simply bundled a reclocker, or integrated one into their boxes, then there’d be no need to add one afterwards. It’s odd that they don’t given the evidence that reclockers make an audible difference (forgetting whether its measurable or not).
 
guest said:
I guess if Innuos simply bundled a reclocker, or integrated one into their boxes, then there’d be no need to add one afterwards. It’s odd that they don’t given the evidence that reclockers make an audible difference (forgetting whether its measurable or not).
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The Phoenix is indeed available integrated within one of the Innuos servers, the Statement.

The add on box of the Phoenix is I understand intended to be a way of owners being able to move their existing server towards the sound quality of the Statement. I have heard the Innuos Statement compared to the Innuos SE and to my ears the Statement was clearly preferable so I am interested to see if the Phoenix can move my Innuos SE towards the Statement in terms of sound quality.
 
I have one tiny problem with the Statement before my audition. It's £10,000. I guess that's okay if your'e buying Dave/Mscaler or similar. One would need extremely good cables between these two of course to get the full benefit.
 
I've heard the Statement at the Copenhagen show, the whole system was amazing but I can't know to what extent the Statement contributed. The Avantgarde kit must have been a big part of it. I'm not really being any more helpful than the spurious cat or relative comments...but I've tried!
 
Fourlegs said:
The Phoenix is indeed available integrated within one of the Innuos servers, the Statement.

The add on box of the Phoenix is I understand intended to be a way of owners being able to move their existing server towards the sound quality of the Statement. I have heard the Innuos Statement compared to the Innuos SE and to my ears the Statement was clearly preferable so I am interested to see if the Phoenix can move my Innuos SE towards the Statement in terms of sound quality.
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As you have the Phoenix there, can you use it with a bog standard computer and a dedicated music streamer and see if the end results are identical. Then the Phoenix may hold some merit to its existence to both sides of the camp?!
 
Cereal Killer said:
As you have the Phoenix there, can you use it with a bog standard computer and a dedicated music streamer and see if the end results are identical. Then the Phoenix may hold some merit to its existence to both sides of the camp?!
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I should be able to try that.
 
So having read the bumf on the device from various sources. It's a usb to usb device that provides a reclocked usb output inc a new clean 5v.

Maybe the 5v makes a difference, perhaps it can do something for synchronous USB dacs. I still doubt its function with and competent USB dac with a decent xmos implementation
 
sq225917 said:
So having read the bumf on the device from various sources. It's a usb to usb device that provides a reclocked usb output inc a new clean 5v.

Maybe the 5v makes a difference, perhaps it can do something for synchronous USB dacs. I still doubt its function with and competent USB dac with a decent xmos implementation
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And this is precisely why I asked you earlier whether you accept that different servers can affect the sound quality from a DAC. You appear to be stating that in your view with a competent DAC there should be no difference. Do I understand you correctly?
 
Having owned couple of DAC's the Mallinson brothers designed (the designers of the ESS chips) and personally discussing the Resonessence Labs products over a number of months, they also said the computer should have no effect on a well designed DAC. I asked Mark about USB cables, his comment was; "the supplied cable cannot be improved upon, don't waste your money"..Which is just a simple USB 2.0 cable with gold plated ends, probs about £5-10 worth.

Unfortunately i was going through a shit time with my now ex-wife so i sold up (DAC/Pre & Active ATCs) to gain traction on more transient life for a few years.

this was the system then:
https://www.resonessencelabs.com/shop/invicta-mirus-signature-pro/
http://atcloudspeakers.co.uk/professional/loudspeakers/scm25a-pro/
or
http://atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/classic-series/scm50/

At the time i also had (on trial) a, lavry DA11 (which i owned), Weiss DAC202 and an Antelope Zodiac Gold/PSU.
 
Which is the standard mantra but having heard very profound differences in side by side demos of different servers my ears tell me something different . . . . . so I was just trying to establish whether
 
Yes, i agree, the mantra from both directions should be tested. and i'm still surprised there are audible differences. When i had that particular system, i used a Toshiba M10 laptop. On battery it sounded fantastic, however when powered with the supplied SMPS ALL the DACs allowed interference when shifting/clicking the mouse... crazy yes, but that just goes to show sometimes the computers fcuk things up further up the chain than anyone expected.
 
Mouse clicks and noise, yup I had that with an mdac, a brooklyn and a mbpro. Never sussed if it was mouse rf or laptop reaction to mouse. Either way it was clearly broken.

@4 my position is that a well designed dac should sound identical on all inputs from any source, cd, pc, whatever. If it doesnt then its lacking in one area or more. My current pi dac stack is fifo buffered and galvanically isolated and so far appears to be source agnostic. My Weiss 202 also appeared to achieve this.

In this day and age any dac with a usb input that isn't galvanically isolated and reclocking Internally has to be considered sub par. I'm still waiting to hear how the kii controller is configured.

If I had a dac which sounded different on different servers/pi/nuc/ whatever then I'd consider it unfit for purpose.
 
sq225917 said:
If I had a dac which sounded different on different servers/pi/nuc/ whatever then I'd consider it unfit for purpose
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And that is the point I was trying to draw out from you.

Basically if a difference cannot be heard with the Phoenix you will effect a smug look and proclaim that you were right all along and if I do claim to hear a difference you will pronounce the DACs I used as being defective.

Not quite the same as if a witch sinks and drowns she is proved innocent and if she floats she is guilty and is burned. But you know where I'm coming from. ;)
 
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