Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 digital DAC

[left channel]

@jhifi there are many reports of good results using STA-9 amps as monoblocks with various speaker configurations. But it may well be that the DAC is the only problem in your system, and I look forward to seeing your report on the NT-505 especially as it's also a streamer.

 

[DimitryZ]

wow that was a quick answer. thank you very much for all the info.
I was thinking upgrading my amp for an Audio-dg precision2 but I afraid I'd get the same discomfort since the marantz and the focal are already supposed to be on the warm side (probably why I liked them in the first place) even thought they'll be improvements for sure.

I'll give an audition to the NuPrime STA-9. It sounds interesting ont the paper. It just lacks connectivity for an integration in a HC/hifi system. I might keep both amps then. Do you reckon a double mono vertical bi-amp with two Nuprime would give better results than a bigger more expensive amp latter on? especially if I change the speakers for more difficult speakers?

For the dac upgrade I might wait for the Teac Nt-505 to come out, a all in one box that is based on a double mono ak4497 design that does MQA. I've got high expectation on this one.

Did you try the filter choices in the S2D? One of them is more ambient sounding, not a typical sabre sound. You can also add a tube buffer just after the DAC for a more harmonic signature. Finally you can run S2D output from the headphone socket -same gain, different sound.

Corrected mini phase fast - harmonic sound.
Mini phase slow-acoustic sound.

 

[jhifi]

@jhifi there are many reports of good results using STA-9 amps as monoblocks with various speaker configurations. But it may well be that the DAC is the only problem in your system, and I look forward to seeing your report on the NT-505 especially as it's also a streamer.

The NT-505 won't be out before December unfortunately. I will most likely get it by 2019. I really have high hopes with that one as there's just a couple of products with the latest ak4497 and none mqa ready. I'll try to remember.

It's hard to give up on this little box. It offers everything I need feature wise and sound quality is good besides recording with lots of harmonics. It has one of the best USB implementation on the market so far and I don't want to spend thousands tidal/mqa ready streamer. I'll bring it for an audition to pair it with a sta-9 to my local dealer. This class A/D thing might be spot on with power for little $. thanks for the tip.

 

[jhifi]

Did you try the filter choices in the S2D? One of them is more ambient sounding, not a typical sabre sound. You can also add a tube buffer just after the DAC for a more harmonic signature. Finally you can run S2D output from the headphone socket -same gain, different sound.

Corrected mini phase fast - harmonic sound.
Mini phase slow-acoustic sound.

Hi!
Honestly since I got it I kept on the Optimal Transient one as it is suppose to be the one that fades out the high end the most. I did little testing with the different filters and honestly I hear none to very subtle difference. I think my system is not high end enough to have a clear different experience. Although I did more extended listening with the mini phase slow somehow I get less fatigue and discomfort even though it seems as bright overall. I couldn't explain, it might be a placebo effect.
furthermore I gave up on the source direct mode, added a little bass on the amp eq to lower the main volume. Voices seem more natural and harshness gone. Finally got something I could listen for hour without a headache!! To the point I cancel my night out to enjoy my stereo. though sound quality suffers the eq and subtle details are gone. Still not a foot stepper.

I did further testing and with the headphones the optimal transient still seem to be my favorite. I can't understand why..
at least I have got something I quite enjoy till I get a new amp matching my tastes better.
thanks.

 

[sberry20118]

although the pbs2 powered with the Ifi Ipower was a major improvement in quality soundwise streaming tidal with Audivarna.

Hi

Actually John Westlake himself has commented on the iFi PSU on another forum (I can't find it but will look) and doesn't recommend it...

Do you have a USB 5Vdc powerbank? Not as a permanent solution but to test.

If your replace the iFi iPower with the powerbank, do you notice the same issues?

Obviously use the powerbank disconnected from the wall charger when listening for this test.

Cheers

 

[DimitryZ]

I use 5vdc LPS from China and find it a good choice.

 

[Hayche]

Hi happy owners of the pbs2 !
I own one myself for the last months and I'm quite happy with it. Though there's one major con soundwise to me and I'd just like to know if some has the same experience as I do.

I'm far to be an audiophile I just have a decent hifi set up with a marantz pm7003 and a a pair of focal 716 (real cable 3d-TDC and atlas equator for the connections) I had a marantz cd player which I enjoyed and the Pre Box s2 Is the first Dac I own at least in this price range. As a 26 yo I don't have the wallet to buy more or better yet. although the pbs2 powered with the Ifi Ipower was a major improvement in quality soundwise streaming tidal with Audivarna.

unfortunately with many tunes, I'd say one out of two there's harmonics in the treble which are a real discomfort to my ears. Piano or female voice harmonics, electric guitars solo harmonics, snare harmonics can sound very harsh to me. although trebles like hi-hats sound very satisfying and smooth. I started reading about different chips and sound signature and i'm starting to think I might part of those people who are allergic to the sabre sound. But to the point I have to lower the volume down cause it's hurting my ears? As a musician since my 6yo I always knew my ears are very sensible in the upper mediums. By the way I asked all my friends who heard the pbs2 in action at home, none of them had the same discomfort as I do.

Has anyone experience the same problem?
Did you have better luck with other dacs?
Anyone know how could I make it more enjoyable to my ears? Change the amp over to a very warm one perhaps?
my listening and living room is ok, at least nothing that cause heavy reverb or distortion.

I very like the overall quality and features of this little box. Even like the sound of it if only there wasnt these bloody hurtful harmonics sometimes. I'd love to love it and keep it but I'm getting quite desperate to have a real satisfying experience with it.

Any help would be very much appreciated.
cheers!

I would experiment with speaker positioning and toe in. Also move your seating area around. Bass nulls and reflections can cause harshness. Always blame the room before the equipment!

 

[Khazul]

I agree, however... What I'd really like first is a device with the functionality of a Chromecast Audio plus an asynchronous USB wired output that can deliver Tidal master quality/MQA.
Currently to use the S2 means I have to transport a PC into my audio system whereas a little box controlled by a tablet would be far more satisfactory. (My PC has other duties and a Tablet cannot do the Tidal master quality).

I am currently using a raspberry pi 3b+ with touch screen with a pre-made system image that gives me a roon bridge, now playing view for roon and very basic touch transport control. Very little trouble to buy the bits and get it up and running (Kits on amazon + need a micro-sd card adapter for PC for initial set-up). I have roon server on my NAS (just a QNAP TS-251). My computers and phone snow only act as a UI for controlling roon, so at last I dont have to tether my macbookpro+dac to the hifi

Cant see myself going to any other streaming solution any time soon.

 

[jhifi]

I settled for Slow roll-off filter with distortion comp enable for the time being. That's the setting that seems to fade the most digital harshness away to me ears and with my gear. I'm quite pleased.
Altough, there's defenitely something wrong with my amp/speakers I don't like that I never heard before with the cd player probably because the PBS2 brings up much more details and harmonics and sounds more airy.
I'll give it a go with a reasonably priced linear psu later on.
I do beleive the room is a critical component but I can't do much about it unfortunately.
Thanks everyone.

 

[andykchapman]

Is there any news on the Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 digital DAC software upgrade mentioned a while back please?

 

[Mark Dirac]

I agree, however... What I'd really like first is a device with the functionality of a Chromecast Audio plus an asynchronous USB wired output that can deliver Tidal master quality/MQA.
Currently to use the S2 means I have to transport a PC into my audio system whereas a little box controlled by a tablet would be far more satisfactory. (My PC has other duties and a Tablet cannot do the Tidal master quality).

In response to your request, John Westlake and Pro-Ject have announced just such a device:

Stream Box S2 Ultra – Pro-Ject Audio Systems

and it has won an EISA award: Pro-Ject Stream Box S2 Ultra | EISA – Expert Imaging and Sound Association

John's products have now won EISA awards two years running.

 

[João Fernandes]

Well. Just got myself one of these. Later on i'll be testing it.
My first question is about the power supply. Having read that using an LPS or a powerbank would result in a greater sound experience, should the powerbank be connected to the power outlet or should it be running only on it's battery?

Cheers all away from Portugal.

 

[Mark Dirac]

Well. Just got myself one of these. Later on i'll be testing it.
My first question is about the power supply. Having read that using an LPS or a powerbank would result in a greater sound experience, should the powerbank be connected to the power outlet or should it be running only on it's battery?

Cheers all away from Portugal.

Welcome Joao. As you can imagine, there's much discussion of this peppered amongst these pages. For a summary, see our PBS2D summary document.

 

[João Fernandes]

Thank you Mark. I will do some reading. The last 46 pages left me dried out.

 

[radamel]

Well. Just got myself one of these. Later on i'll be testing it.
My first question is about the power supply. Having read that using an LPS or a powerbank would result in a greater sound experience, should the powerbank be connected to the power outlet or should it be running only on it's battery?

Cheers all away from Portugal.

Bem-vindo!

Welcome!

 

[João Fernandes]

Hello.
Well, i've been using a 10000mAh powerbank to drive the dac and it's really amazing how the sound changes, for the better. It's punchier and crispier. Wide open stage and vocals very firm.

Yesterday i plugged in my Marantz CD5004 via optical to the dac to see if there where any differences. First thing i noticed while i was messing with the filters was a little "b" letter next to the optical sign? Does anyone know what this is?

 

[andykchapman]

Is there any news on the Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 digital DAC software upgrade mentioned a while back please?

Second time of asking...

Is there any news on the Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 digital DAC software upgrade mentioned a while back please?

i.e. an upgrade that cures the MQA/Optimal Transient filter bug and hopefully will remove the glitch when a MQA track begins to play.

 

[left channel]

Second time of asking...

Is there any news on the Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 digital DAC software upgrade mentioned a while back please?

i.e. an upgrade that cures the MQA/Optimal Transient filter bug and hopefully will remove the glitch when a MQA track begins to play.

Apparently not. I still see only the old version 2.12 on the Pro-Ject website. https://www.project-audio.com/en/product/pre-box-s2-digital/

There is no official Pro-Ject representative on this forum, but I do believe @JohnW will let us know if and when an update is available.

 

[distribution]

I suspect you'll have to contact Pro-Ject directly. Their website contact page diverts messages to local distributors if they exist, so we have been getting around that by selecting "Barbados" as the country and then explaining in the message. Please let us know what response you receive. http://www.box-designs.com/main.php?info=kontakt&cat=default&lang=en

Thus far, only automated replies promising a quick response. Their concept of customer service sure is unique.

 

[left channel]

Thus far, only automated replies promising a quick response. Their concept of customer service sure is unique.

I suspect there's still only one overworked non-technical marketing person monitoring that inbox. Pro-Ject was not at all prepared to get into computer audio. And instead of learning and growing into it, they have invested further in their traditional business by for example acquiring Musical Fidelity, while continuing to fantasize that they can rely 100% on contractors for development and quality, and 100% on dealers for technical support. I regret not advising you to simply return your Head Box in June.