Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 digital DAC
- Thread starter miero
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left channel
Prominent Member
left channel
Prominent Member
Let's hope. That strange filter result was very real though. I've alerted someone at Pro-Ject, though I suspect they knew already.
i meant the original Audiolab MDAC.
left channel
Prominent Member
@Mark Dirac posted his impressions here https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/pro-ject-pre-box-s2-digital-dac.201691/page-35#post-3351750
As you may know, comparing DACs of equal calibre often takes a long time. Both of us stated we were wary of confirmation bias at the outset. Much of this comparison is more unconscious than the immediate differences one can pick out when comparing amplifiers, headphones, or speakers.
Sometimes it's only after several weeks that it suddenly occurs to you, when you weren't specifically listening for it, what the differences are. If any. (On the other hand, the improvement the S2D offers when used to bypass the 10 year-old DAC built into a Squeezebox Touch is quite obvious.)
sberry20118
pfm Member
I thought his findings were in line with Jussi's published a while ago - Optimal Transient's filter was not best? And linear phase + fast rolloff was the best he measured.
I had to open up my unit after this review, just to makes sure I saw blue and not pink - there was a sigh of relief hehe.
left channel
Prominent Member
Yes it's suboptimal. So-to-speak. ;-)
It is something that should have been noticed at the factory during final testing though.
sberry20118
pfm Member
Agreed, unless that's actually the way that filter was intended by John W ?
Here is the first S2 DAC death I've read about so far that doesn't have anything to do with breaking the microUSB connector (which I've had happened with other DACs too):
https://community.roonlabs.com/t/pro-ject-pre-box-s2-digital/29726/558
left channel
Prominent Member
That's sad, especially since he really likes his S2D. I hope this is just a cluster of problems in one production run, and that they'll get past it. I only own this Pro-Ject product and one other (the Amp Box S2), but for the record both have been reliable for me, firmware aside.
I have a problem with windows mixer volume control. I'm able to control volume via windows mixer when I'm listening music in Foobar with wasapi. But only when S2 is set as default device. I think wasapi is here to direct communication with sound device to bypass win mixer. One month ago it was OK. When I set S2 as default win volume didn't contol foobar, but now yes.
Does anyone have the same problem? How to solve it?
One more question: some information about "Lakewest" build and level meters from this link? https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/pro-ject-pre-box-s2-digital-dac.201691/page-11#post-3236039
Does anyone have the same problem? How to solve it?
One more question: some information about "Lakewest" build and level meters from this link? https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/pro-ject-pre-box-s2-digital-dac.201691/page-11#post-3236039
left channel
Prominent Member
If you don't bypass system audio you're not getting the full benefit of using an external DAC to improve performance. You want to send a bit perfect signal to the DAC, and then let the DAC control volume. In your example above that means don't use DirectSound, use WASAPI and fixed volume. But there is an ASIO driver designed for this DAC. Any reason you are not using it? The driver control panel includes a software volume control, and using that would be more acceptable if you must, but the goal is to send a fixed signal to the DAC and control the volume from there.
I don't think that's going to happen. We've been waiting about four months for a much more basic firmware update. But I'd be happy to be surprised.
Mark Dirac
pfm Member
What does ASIO do that WASAPI doesn't do?
What does Tidal do - it's clearly passing a bit-perfect stream (MQA flag). What driver does it use to achieve bit-perfect? Does it install some driver along with the application?
What does Tidal do - it's clearly passing a bit-perfect stream (MQA flag). What driver does it use to achieve bit-perfect? Does it install some driver along with the application?
left channel
Prominent Member
I'm no audio expert, I just play one on TV.
What I do know is that ASIO was created to bypass Windows system audio and work directly with your hardware. WASAPI is the new-and-improved hardware level driver and I think the main selling point is Exclusive Mode, plus maybe it also makes your coffee and takes your kids to school. Web forums are rife with debate over whether one can actually hear — or feel, or whatever — any difference between WASAPI and ASIO.In Tidal if you leave the audio device on "System Default" you can't click in further to select Exclusive Mode, Force volume, and Passthrough MQA. If you specifically select your DAC, the gear icon will show up when you hover there. As to whether the Tidal app knows it's handing off to a hardware-level driver at that point, I have no idea.
In the Qobuz app you can see these things a little more clearly:
Mark Dirac
pfm Member
Edit: The following is bol*locks - see reply posted by pj.walczak below.
Hmm. Thanks. I guess you must have installed WASAPI and ASIO, and Qobuz is recognising this. Tidal just gets on with it, and still manages to achieve bit-perfect (according to to the MQA flag on BBS2D). I guess it's using DirectSound - if I guess right, then DirectSound must be capable of bit-perfect.
(I took a screenshot but cannot figure out how to include it. I would rather spend time understanding how to use my PBS2D than how to use pinkfishmedia.)
Hmm. Thanks. I guess you must have installed WASAPI and ASIO, and Qobuz is recognising this. Tidal just gets on with it, and still manages to achieve bit-perfect (according to to the MQA flag on BBS2D). I guess it's using DirectSound - if I guess right, then DirectSound must be capable of bit-perfect.
(I took a screenshot but cannot figure out how to include it. I would rather spend time understanding how to use my PBS2D than how to use pinkfishmedia.)
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left channel
Prominent Member
The Xenforo software includes an option to host images, but server space costs money and I can understand why Tony has elected not to turn that on (yet?). You'd have to first have your screen shot hosted elsewhere, then provide the image url.
DirectSound is not capable of bit perfect as far as I know. Yet another MQA mystery.
It's nice to have both ASIO and WASAPI drivers on my system, because I can leave an app that uses ASIO (Squeezelite-X) running at all times. When I open one of the apps that is set to WASAPI Exclusive Mode (Tidal, Qobuz, MusicBee, or foobar2000) it will complain if it finds another app with the same settings is already running. I then have to close the other app, and often have to go into the chosen app's settings to fix things. Nice problem to have though.
DirectSound is not capable of bit perfect as far as I know. Yet another MQA mystery.
It's nice to have both ASIO and WASAPI drivers on my system, because I can leave an app that uses ASIO (Squeezelite-X) running at all times. When I open one of the apps that is set to WASAPI Exclusive Mode (Tidal, Qobuz, MusicBee, or foobar2000) it will complain if it finds another app with the same settings is already running. I then have to close the other app, and often have to go into the chosen app's settings to fix things. Nice problem to have though.
Seemingly you can throw away or corrupt an awful lot of the allegedly “authenticated” MQA data and still get the MQA light to go on.
https://www.computeraudiophile.com/...s-to-16-bits-and-the-blue-light-still-shines/
left channel
Prominent Member
It doesn't matter if I use Wasapi or ASIO - same problem. Win volume control still working. I don't want to use any type of software volume control in windows. Direct sound worked some time ago with no problem. But now, on the same version of Foobar, firmware, driver and without change any settings it not work correctly.
left channel
Prominent Member
The foobar WASAPI component should enable Exclusive Mode. I forget how foobar behaves with the Pro-Ject ASIO driver, but if you leave all sliders set to 100% that should be good enough. Glad to help, and there are probably others here who use foobar more often than I do, but you're probably better off asking this question in a foobar forum.