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Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 digital DAC

gahabana said:
my experience with "Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 digital DAC"

Am using odroidxu4 (running Armbian builds of Ubuntu) as endpoint for Roon as well as LMS/squeezelite.
Worked immediately with no issues.
I also have a benchmark dac2 hgc (which i used both as preamp for pro-ject s2 and to compare).
Love - all resolutions worked out of the box. PCM all the way to 768khz and DSD via DOP all the way to DSD256 with Roon.
Sounds very good. Haven’t done a lot of critical listening - but i hear nothing worse compared to Benchmark DAC2. Remote (one that comes with it) is cheapo plastic bit bigger then credit card but works great for volume control and switching filters or on the fly or sources etc.
sounds GREAT to me.
things i love compared to Benchmark:

switching between various sampling rate sources is practically instant. i.e. from 44.1khz CD to 192khz hires source or dsd is instant. on benchmark there was 0.4sec delay or you missed bit from start of the song. if all upsampled obviously none of the dac’s have issue with changing sampling rates but it makes me happy. i still use LMS from time to time so that comes in handy
over 24+ hours no issues, clicks, losing sync etc … i think digital piece/USB is well implemented and has no obvious bugs …in spite of changing, reseting, roon and squeezelite - not once i had to reboot due to sw bug. that is great!!!. e.g. SMSL M9 DAC i also have works fine sounds good but when you reboot the pc or endpoint it starts with hiss until music app (roon or squeezelite) actually starts sending sometjhing (or even silence) … no big deal but bit annoying. as i am planning to replace benchmark dac2 with it and going directly to poweramp can not do that with SMSL m9 but think i ll have no issues with Pro-Ject S2
it remembers volume setting upon power off … which is good if going to power amp directly
MQA support - seems to work very well. 48 all the way to 192khz abd blue light works (tested with Roon/Tidal).
downsides compared to benchmark:

does not have balanced out’s that my amp has (Bryston) … can use RCAs but would be nice if it was balanced
don’t care about headphones so did not compare at all
it can not be powered off (if powered or connected via USB only and source is powered its always powered). not a big . deal … just would be nice if you could power it off
has mute on remote just like benchmark … what benchmark also did is ‘Dim’ which takes volume 20 or 30db down so if you get a phone call can still hear the music but at much lower volume instantly … just cool
i miss ability to power up amp via preamp/dac. it requires 12V output and i guess it did fit in benchmark and pro-ject bing 2-4 smaller box it kinda didn’t fit. if i switch to pro-ject and eliminate benchmark as a preamp ill have to turn on/off amplifier manually and cant do it via remote no more :frowning:
i wish pro-ject would display sample rate and depth. behcmark does it with LEDs … and smsl has info screen. not that it matters cause it DOES work whatever you send to it (16/24/32 bit and any sample rate) …
but benchmark is 2000EUR and Pro-ject 350. makes you wonder if its worth it.

However, last step was to try S2 directly powering poweramp (Bryston SST2). All of the above still holds true however, there might be a problem for me to use it in that way unless you guys have some idea:
Issue: when sample rate changes between the tracks very often i hear a farily loud click/pop between the tracks. I rebooted, powered off … changed settings in the DAC (filters and ‘distortion settings’ on or off) but that did not make any difference. i even inserted Intona isolater between by USB source computer and S2 just to be sure it’s not due to some ‘ground’ connection issues.

My guess is that it could be fixed in the firmware of the S2 (whenever input sample rate changes drive output to 0 in few ms and that i think could do it) … it happens when going from 44.1 to 192 and any other mix … some combo’s almost every time some not so often. Of course if I upsample all the content from Roon to 352 or 384 kHZ it is a non issue but then MQA support is gone etc.

I have no clue why i did not hear those clicks/pops when S2 was connected to Benchmark DAC2 which acted as pre-amplifier.

Any thoughts/ideas ?

Thanks !!!
Click to expand...
I understand. But how is it possible a small entry level dac for a small price can it beat a studio mastering 2000 euros class dac. I have a dac 2 l and the sound is awesone. It can outperform many of dacs on the market.
 
I don't know if it beats the Benchmark DAC2 (haven't compared), but it does sound very very good, especially when using better power (I use iFi nano iUSB3).
 
Amazing how many customers have received this product with no CD in the box. Three more just asked me for it on CA. Pro-Ject should add a CD image, or better yet a standalone installer, to the product web page. I'm providing an ISO, the beta firmware update, and other files via a Dropbox folder, no login required. I do not need your email address. Just send me a PM.
 
stale25 said:
I understand. But how is it possible a small entry level dac for a small price can it beat a studio mastering 2000 euros class dac. I have a dac 2 l and the sound is awesone. It can outperform many of dacs on the market.
Click to expand...

@Stale25,
I think one can only judget by the ears. Get S2 and connect it to benchmark DAC2 HGC on it's analog input. Play same (i use roon and lms server so can sync two players) and you can do immedie change from benchmark to s2 (and btw, you are in theory making S2 sounds inferior as it is passing through benchmark's preamp and then coming out and benchmark's own dac does not have to do that one more time).
I can not hear the difference. Maybe ear deaf ... or let me put it this way - if i trained my ear to spot differences maybe i might hear them. I did pay attention to imaging, cleanliness of the cymbals or drum kicks and colour of the voices.... my experience is - they do sound almost the same. am sure if blind test - i could not tell a difference.

why dont you try and let us know ?

btw, i DO love benchmark DAC2 ... but based on my experience - maybe i can sell it for 1.5k and keep s2 and then figure out how to upgrade my bryston 4BSST2 amp into newer/better model or just buy lot more music ?
 
gahabana said:
@Stale25,
I think one can only judget by the ears. Get S2 and connect it to benchmark DAC2 HGC on it's analog input. Play same (i use roon and lms server so can sync two players) and you can do immedie change from benchmark to s2 (and btw, you are in theory making S2 sounds inferior as it is passing through benchmark's preamp and then coming out and benchmark's own dac does not have to do that one more time).
I can not hear the difference. Maybe ear deaf ... or let me put it this way - if i trained my ear to spot differences maybe i might hear them. I did pay attention to imaging, cleanliness of the cymbals or drum kicks and colour of the voices.... my experience is - they do sound almost the same. am sure if blind test - i could not tell a difference.

why dont you try and let us know ?

btw, i DO love benchmark DAC2 ... but based on my experience - maybe i can sell it for 1.5k and keep s2 and then figure out how to upgrade my bryston 4BSST2 amp into newer/better model or just buy lot more music ?
Click to expand...
Why not i will probably try and soon. Here in France we can order it for ..
https://www.homecinesolutions.fr/p/16858-pro-ject-pre-box-s2-digital-argent
only in silver.:)
 
We just might be able to upgrade the DSD to support DSD1024 via a firmware update.

Also, we can add bit depth indicator on USB - we might add these more advance features to a "Lakewest" build.

Later - Level meters...
 
Level meters would be cool :)

What about USB volume, is it still a planned feature? Its such a practical feature when using Roon and listening at desktop, I can even control it from Windows volume without involving the Windows mixer (Roon reads the Windows volume and alters the DAC with USB volume).
 
With the firmware 2.11 beta, the control panel volume control works now. Not sure what USB volume features others might need.
 
You are correct, I can now use "Device control" and control volume from Roon. The volume on the DAC display does not update though, that would be a nice touch.
 
The USB Volume control feature "crept in" the beta as we are working on USB volume control for a streamer project - however the USB gain scaling its currently being done by the XMOS which is not sonically the best option.

We plan to optimise the USB level control to implement the ESS digital attenuator as soon as time allows as its a critical feature for the Streamer.

I'm not sure if the USB volume control works with DSD - it should not...
 
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