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PFM politics threads

sideshowbob said:
Evangelists in any field really don't see or understand how odd their behaviour appears to others.
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Once sat next to an Evangelist on a 8-hour transatlantic flight. He was on his way to convert the locals. His narrative was very similar in form and tone to the MMT discussions here on PF. Probably just a coincidence.
 
miktec said:
Lincolnshire tatties are the best there are .... make far tastier chips than the ones I had in Wales for instance ....

(... or is that too political?)
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Not at all... in fact ‘Lincolnshire Tatties - chipping potential?’ would make another fine thread.
 
Marchbanks said:
Not at all... in fact ‘Lincolnshire Tatties - chipping potential?’ would make another fine thread.
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Have you tried Golden Wonder (Scotland) or Rooster (Ireland). These are fabulous dry potatoes for crispness. A boiled Golden Wonder can almost taste like a fried one.

DV
 
There seems to be a fair degree of mind-reading at play here, usually of the 'why are you so angry?' variety. You don't, and can't know whether someone is 'angry', or 'impatient' or well, anything just from the words they post on a screen.

To me, there are several types of response to the MMT thing, some of which overlap:

1) I understand and agree with the tenets of MMT, and will do my best to spread the word

2) MMT sounds interesting, but I need to read up on it a bit more before deciding whether or not I agree with it

3) MMT sounds interesting, but it is not realistic to expect any mainstream political party to adopt its ideas

4) MMT sounds too good to be true, and probably is

5) MMT is voodoo economics

Underlying these responses is the 'so what?'' secondary question; if MMT is true, should I hold out until a mainstream political party picks up on it, or should I vote for the least-worst party, accepting that they all still hold traditionalist views on economics? Alternatively, would it be better to watch the economy crash and burn and hope that something better emerges from its ashes?
 
Marchbanks said:
Sorry about that, but I was having a particularly bad day. And I didn’t realise it was you.
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Fair enough. Unlike your goodself, I am not immediately recognisable. I have carefully cultured an appearance that is so bland, it almost amounts to invisibility.
 
Kirk said:
Once sat next to an Evangelist on a 8-hour transatlantic flight. He was on his way to convert the locals. His narrative was very similar in form and tone to the MMT discussions here on PF. Probably just a coincidence.
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Although evangelist has a modern, non-pejorative meaning as well. For example, in software development the world is full of radical new frameworks and paradigms but which face a massive barrier in terms of adoption. So organizations employ evangelists to make the case via social media, conferences, etc. and attempt to get people to overcome the massive inertia and adopt a new way of doing things.

What is clear about this role is that people who are good at this are sociable, likeable and charismatic and above all else dood at explaining complex ideas simply.
 
matthewr said:
What is clear about this role is that people who are good at this are sociable, likeable and charismatic and above all else dood at explaining complex ideas simply.
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THIS !!!!! And if you're not so great at the above simply post a good link where those interested can go and be reasonably expected to be able to digest the link in under 30 minutes.

PFM has remained remarkably free of nastiness over the past 10 years of political discourse, despite the incredible tumult in politics in the UK and US - it would be a great pity to lose this.
 
sideshowbob said:
Evangelists in any field really don't see or understand how odd their behaviour appears to others.
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They also tend to come undone due to cutting up rough when the sales pitch doesn't gain traction. I was sitting on a public bench recently, and a religious evangelist joined me offering salvation. He wouldn't take no for an answer, so I had to repeatedly explain why wasn't interested. His polite and kind manner slowly soured until he got properly shouty cross, and exited with bellowed predictions I (and members of family) would soon suffer a major disaster, all bound for hellfire & damnation, etc.

In my experience genuine experts rarely, if ever, loose their tempter when subject of discussion is their specialism.
 
Colin L said:
MMT. I know its Modern Monetary Theory, but Magic Money Tree seems much more appropriate, especially given the ongoing nonsense from the fantabulists on the Tory Love Island show.
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Compared with Liz, Rishi has quite a small horn of plenty and she’s been pointing it out (like Rebecca Vardy) to the membership.


YLSdiEM.jpg
 
My brother has an interesting way of dealing with door-to-door religious salespersons. He has long been retired, so has plenty of time on his hands. He also has a Bible, and knows his way around it. So when the JWs or the Mormons come knocking, he doesn't slam the door in their faces, or politely say he's not interested. He invites them in, sits them down, and cites Chapter and Verse from the Bible to contradict their sales patter. After a while, they're edging towards the door.
 
I left the Naim forum and stayed on PFM because 1) I liked what I saw here - an interesting group of regular people talking about music, hi-fi and other stuff, and 2) Naim banned political discussion.

I am interested in all determinants of human behavior: biological, psychological, cultural, political, social and economic. I find discussions about how modern economies work (or don't) fascinating, and I try to participate as time and energy allows. IMO, MMT comes closer to describing how economies actually work than previous models. Even Larry Summers wrote "Who's Afraid of Budget Defecits?". Defecit spending has been embraced in the US by both Dems and GOP when they are in control. The GOP loves defense spending but, of course, reverts to austerity when they control Congress during a Dem presidency. To hell with what's good for the country, their only motivation is to deny their political opponents any "wins".

My one area of discomfort with MMT is taxes. No, they are not used to fund spending. Yes, taxes are how we maintain the value of money (our government's "promise" to redeem). I see a few on the right saying MMT is good because it "justifies" huge tax cuts for the corporations and the wealthy. Bollocks I say. MMT acknowledges that without taxation, money loses its value through inflation. Taxes remain essential, as does the discussion of who pays what share. I strongly believe in a more progressive tax code.

I think much of the consternation here comes from the fact that there are new posters who are now posting long posts in large numbers. I don't mind at all, but it has changed this place. It has made political and economic threads here a bit less "comfortable" for some, and perhaps confusing for others. IMO, there's nothing in principle wrong with that - it's how we all learn and grow. We just all need to be just a bit more welcoming and diplomatic (me included). If the purpose of posting is to share opinion and influence others, then I am once again reminded of a childhood lesson: you can catch more flys with honey than vinegar.
 
paulfromcamden said:
It was bound to happen. You start a politics thread and it gets hijacked by a small number of spud obsessed members who just want to post at length about obscure tubers.

And yes I've got a chip on my shoulder...
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Twas ever so on pfm - thread high-jacking.

Over the years I have seen the 'off topic' area wax and wane sometimes really interesting and at other times for me boring. The one thing that pfm did for me was to lead me into unknown areas of HiFi and end up with a music playing system beyond anything I thought was possible. True I've spent what at one time I would have thought an insane amount but again it was the buying and selling part of pfm that allowed this to happen. Ever since I have tried (and sometimes failed) to help others out.

Today many of the vocal members hold different views to me so I stay away. It would be different if I were in the same room with say a drink in hand as apart from discussing differences we could see each others body language and take it from there.

DV
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
I've no doubt I can also improve my posting style, but the reason I put you on ignore some considerable time ago was your habit, as above, of accusing me of deliberate misrepresentation from incorrect inferences. I have little doubt that this reply to mine was another such.

I have said many times to you that if I have misinterpreted a post, then this is never deliberate. The fault may be mine, or it may be a post which didn't clearly make its point, but the accusation of deliberately misunderstanding so as to troll, is offensive. You have never accepted this, apparently preferring to consider nobody could ever misunderstand your posts, which are self-evidently blameless. You accused me of this so often it obliged me to put you on ignore as defending myself against these accusations was spoiling my enjoyment of the discussions on here.

But in the spirit of this thread's OP, I'd like to re-engage - I think you make some worthwhile points and I'm sure I miss some interesting insights. But I will not tolerate your refusal to accept that if I misunderstand a point, I am not doing so in bad faith. If you're happy to wipe the slate clean, then so am I.
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I’m not going to scrape the forum for examples because I’m quite happy with the idea of moving on.

What I will say is though, I’ve never said or believed something I write could not be inadvertently misunderstood, I simply dislike being accused of holding an opinion I do not hold and have very clearly not said I do hold.

Making wild inferences may sometimes work out f2f when there is body language but not really from a keyboard over the internet where there is so much room for error. If there is confusion asking for clarification but without aggressive accusation is a better approach.
 
matthewr said:
Although evangelist has a modern, non-pejorative meaning as well. For example, in software development the world is full of radical new frameworks and paradigms but which face a massive barrier in terms of adoption. So organizations employ evangelists to make the case via social media, conferences, etc. and attempt to get people to overcome the massive inertia and adopt a new way of doing things.

What is clear about this role is that people who are good at this are sociable, likeable and charismatic and above all else dood at explaining complex ideas simply.
Click to expand...

Personality plays a large role in these things. During my flight, it didn’t take long for the personality to drown out the message.
 
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