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PFM politics threads

I've started actively avoiding politics threads on PFM. They just seem to have become rather ill humoured and dull with a handful of members attacking each other with endless thousand word posts and/or derogatory remarks. I'm not sure what anyone is hoping to achieve. And I'm not sure I can face another reference to the AUP. I don't envy the mods.

I might regret this but I'm curious as to how other members feel.
 
I've started actively avoiding politics threads on PFM. They just seem to have become rather ill humoured and dull with a handful of members attacking each other with endless thousand word posts and/or derogatory remarks. I'm not sure what anyone is hoping to achieve. And I'm not sure I can face another reference to the AUP. I don't envy the mods.

I might regret this but I'm curious as to how other members feel.

I think that the forum inadvertently changed it's name some time ago to Political Fish Media.
 
I no longer want to participate in them (and can't). There is no actual discussion allowed in them.
 
FWIW the mod team feel much the same.

Any forum is inevitably going to reflect wider society, direct personal perspectives etc, and the UK (where pfm is based) is in a hell of a mess at present. Obviously everyone will be concerned by that. America, where we also have many, many members, is arguably even worse as they have guns and religious fundamentalism on top of similarly bad and failing politics.

That said I/the rest of the mod team are concerned by the number of people posting exclusively about politics. The off topic area always used to be/was intended to be an area for contributors to the rest of the site to put the world to right. It has always been moderated. I am a life long anti-fascist and my website obviously reflects my views. But at present stuff is arriving so fast I and the rest of the team can’t keep on top of it.

I am obviously politically active on the site myself, but I produce many hundreds of pages of high quality content elsewhere on the site (classic and music rooms mainly). This is the balance I want and I’m not sure how to get back to that. I’m really uneasy about the folk who for some reason are finding what is primarily a music and audio site a place to join purely for political discussion. I don’t understand that.

PS If there was a way to set a ratio e.g. two posts in off topic for every four elsewhere on the site I would implement it, but there just isn’t! I’m certain that would take the edge off.
 
Most people who post on political threads do so because they are frustrated by the status quo. In other words, they start off being angry about something and, therefore, challenges to their positions are often taken personally. It is very hard to separate intellectual opinion from personal belief, and it is way too easy to assume that people with different opinions lack honesty, credibility and/or sincerity.

This will sound obvious to many, but IMO, our political threads are lacking in 1) civility, and 2) hope. There are way too many false assumptions, snide remarks and needless “button pushing” for my tastes. But more importantly, where is the discussion of positive, constructive political steps that can actually be taken to improve our lives? Mom always used to tell me not to complain about something until I had thought through a way to make it better. We seem to have a good number of folks here who see quite clearly that things are wrong, but far too few are offering any hope for the future.

Without hope, without realistic goals and a plan for achieving them, this is all just jaw jacking. And if that’s all it is, then there’s no sense in getting upset by it.
 
I’ve never put anyone on ignore, and as the resident right winger, I’ve had my fair share of abuse over the years. In saying that, the vast majority of PFMers are very decent people, they don’t throw insults around, are great to chat to, and I’m happy to defend myself if needed. The real horrors tend to hang around for a while, but rarely last very long, before realising that a hifi forum is probably not the best place to peddle their obsessions ad infinitum.
 
IMO there are some posters who have to have the last word and can't say "OK let's agree to differ". The cartoon posted a while ago, something like "I can't go to bed, someone is wrong on the Internet!" is very accurate.
Is a limit to the number of posts one person can make on a thread in a day possible?
EDIT: Obviously there are some red lines, there can be no agreement to differ with racists, homophobes etc.
 
I've started actively avoiding politics threads on PFM.

I might regret this but I'm curious as to how other members feel.
I’ve avoided them for some years as (1) arguing on the internet is a total waste of time as no-one ever changes their mind and (2) if someone is presented with irrefutable proof that their view is wrong, they simply go quiet for a page or two then return and repeat it.

An ‘ignore thread’ facility would be handy so one could weed out the 50% of political ones at source.
 
I very much think the issue is not so much about politics in general, but discussing the primary observation that taxes don’t fund our government spend in particular. It seems to generate an angry response and sometimes that anger becomes resentment. When I started a thread on MMT I received so many attacks on my personality and my intelligence that I stopped referring to MMT at all, and just started asking people for proof that taxes do fund spending (in a functional manner etc).

If that has seemed a little direct in the past, I apologise.

I actually get the anger. I recognise it from experience. Initially the idea that taxes do not fund spending seems so wrong, so counterintuitive, and it is not the picture I’ve been seeing and believing with my own eyes and ears for all my voting life. It has felt a bit like looking at one of those pictures in which you can see a young woman or an old crone and not being able to focus your mind on the one you’re trying to see, then can’t see either and then your mind snaps back it snaps back on the one you were seeing in the first place.

When I did finally see it, the anger didn’t stop. I am now angry at the whole household full of lies I been believing all this time. I feel a bit stupid. People complain about being treated like an idiot, but that is how I feel every time I hear Sunak telling me porkies on prime time telly. If that anger has spilt out on occasions, and it might have, again, I apologise.

I do try not to react badly to anger or to resentment and passive aggressive sneering, but sometimes it goes beyond resentment and becomes just sheering and on occasion I have certainly responded rather more robustly than maybe I should have.

I apologise to all for my part in any unpleasantness in the past and in the future promise to respond to anger directed to an actual observation and resentment directed at a point in good faith.

As for the sneering, I will do my utmost to do better than last time.
 
That description could apply to many other threads on pfm, not just to the political threads.

possibly - but they don't quite seem to be as aggressive. Some are inhabited by some with narcissist tendencies - but maybe it's to be expected on social media.

There are some with extreme views or who use extreme language to describe something trivial. For example, use of the word "Nazi" to describe something trivial is quite common, but is exceptionally offensive to someone whose relatives were murdered in gas chambers.
 
The issue for me is not the topic (although there seems to be a plethora of related threads that could be wrapped up as two: "1 - Aren't the Tories Awful?" and "2 - Why is everyone economically illiterate, except me?") but the manner in which the discourse is being conducted. They're getting dangerously close to Israel / Palestine territory, and we know what happened to them.

PFM can be a great place to be with some really great folks, but some folks seem to place greater import on being right over being personable. I suspect, though, that's just an artefact of typing online.
 
People need to lighten up and get a grip. Imagine there were lots of religious threads on pfm with theists and atheists arguing the toss over whether God exists. Would such discussions change anyone’s mind? Would they generate more heat than light, or vice-versa?

(You’d need a few wishy-washy agnostics like me to lighten the tone and add some apposite jokes, obvs.)
 


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