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One for the Isobarik Experts

Discussion in 'audio' started by Richard Lines, Mar 3, 2020.

  1. wylton

    wylton Naim and Mana member

    A lot of us aren't even in the privileged position of being able to play our hi-fi!
     
    Woodface likes this.
  2. Richard Lines

    Richard Lines pfm Member

    :(:(:(:(:(:(:(
     
  3. Richard Lines

    Richard Lines pfm Member

    Good Evening All,

    I spent the best part of 3hrs moving things around yesterday morning. Replaced my made up cables with the ones from designacable. Altered the speaker connections from the NAP250's - they were wired to feed a pair of woofers or midranges but are now wired 'Naim style' with one woofer and one midrange from each. This should add to the bass handling.........

    Did the Tune Dem thing again - on this occasion the speakers ended up 10cm off the wall. Ran a final REW frequency sweep.

    Updated the data in SO v1 and then applied it. I had the same strange result as before i.e. speakers on short wall in that SO dealt with the primary peak circa 45Hz but created a very significant dip circa 85Hz. I was able to ameliorate it somewhat by manually adjusting Room Modes 2, 3 & 4.

    Sent a couple of REW sweeps to Neil. Spent 2hrs listening to the system last night at what might be called reasonable levels (I'm not sure Kate would use the same adjective). Peter Gabriel's 'So' sounded particularly good.

    Did some more listening this afternoon. Am finding the very variable quality of source material very frustrating. Started listening to Alanis Morrisette's 'Jagged Little Pill' (not listened and only managed to get halfway through the first track - utterly utterly awful - whoever was responsible for its production should be taken out and shot).

    Had a Zoom call with Neil this evening. I now have five filters to try and then apply SO 'manually' following Neil's instructions. What should be the final Zoom call with Neil is scheduled for 17:00 on Friday.

    The Exactbox will then get boxed up for going back to the dealers...........not looking forward to going back to the SNAXO/ Supercap set-up..........

    Regards

    Richard
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2021
  4. nostromo

    nostromo pfm Member

    Agreed, some great songs but an awful recording, actually none of her albums are well recorded.

    On the other hand almost everthing by Gabriel is well recorded.
     
  5. chris geary

    chris geary pfm Member

    Seems like you have reached that point where the system is giving you everything on the recording honestly. That is a blessing and a curse, as you know.
     
    mega lord and cctaylor like this.
  6. cctaylor

    cctaylor pfm Member

    I find that some recordings are quite difficult to listen to now.

    I always thought my pressing of "All Round my Hat" by Steeleye Span was duff until I streamed it from Qobuz. Other recordings are as disappointing as others are wonderful.

    I have what is basically a 1970s Linn/Naim Tri-amp system with some minor tweaks. I have the 32 dual-railed as is the NAXO and each is fed by its own SNAPS with updated Newt regulators from Witch Hat. The Isobariks are original apart from the tweeters which have been replaced with Hiqufon OW2s. For the moment I haven't adjusted the NAXO but may edge down the tweeter settings. Either my ears have got used to the new setup or the tweeters have now run in and softened in sound.
     
  7. Arkless Electronics

    Arkless Electronics Trade: Amp design and repairs.

    Maybe a different @Richard Lines but would Peltier effect have much meaning for you?
     
  8. Richard Lines

    Richard Lines pfm Member

    Have sent you a PM.

    Regards

    Richard
     
  9. Richard Lines

    Richard Lines pfm Member

    Good Evening All,

    Whilst not necessarily my taste or first choice, Taylor Swift's 'reputation' has the merit of being well recorded (IMHO) - so it can be done........... Wall to wall sound, height, reaching out from the wall to the listening position and plenty of bass........

    There are issues with SO v1 operating in default mode (which I'm stuck with having custom Exact filters), so I've basically had to cancel Room Mode 2, 3 & 4 and reduce Mode 1 (43.99Hz) from -30.67dB to -20dB (this determined with REW). It's still not perfect but getting there.

    Tomorrow will be spent following Neil's instructions for modifying SO 'manually'.

    Now listening to 'Who's Next' - seemingly a sound engineer managed to get things pretty well sorted back in 1971...........

    Regards

    Richard
     
  10. sunbeamgls

    sunbeamgls pfm Member

    This has been quite the journey, without leaving the living room. Working on speaker crossovers 400 miles apart due to Covid has been a learning experience for both of us. Fortunately RL has been a dab hand with the REW and the DATS software and tools.
    Its been a challenge and fun, hopefully with a good result.
    Now RL, how about letting everyone hear the system, its only about 500 miles to Kegworth...?
     
  11. Richard Lines

    Richard Lines pfm Member

    Good Evening All,

    That's the work with Neil completed this evening, probably much to his relief! This last bit involved tweaking the mid and high filters by 1dB. Whilst REW frequency sweeps have been taken on every occasion the final determinations have been arrived by using a set of Mk.I ears.

    The REW result for the final result:-

    [​IMG]

    This is pretty close to the 'ideal' house curve.

    The dip at circa 55Hz is greatly reduced from where it was but the problem with being sat where I am coincides with a node point at around 72Hz which is unavoidable.

    I'm away until Wednesday at which point the Exactbox will be going back to the shop from which it was borrowed. I need to think about the next stage.

    I'd like to take this opportunity to thank Neil for his assistance (and perseverance)

    There is still life in them old Brik's yet. The drivers may have been replaced but the concept is unchanged - not bad for a 48year old design...........

    I see Neil has posted whilst I was writing this - Kegworth?? I assume you mean the WAM show? That would be a long haul.

    Regards

    Richard
     
  12. Purité Audio

    Purité Audio Trade: Purite Audio

    Your ‘ideal’ is more like something you would find a mixing /mastering engineer using essential horizontal , I would have thought a downward sloping target?
    Keith
     
  13. Richard Lines

    Richard Lines pfm Member

    Keith - there is a slope from about 2.2k but it is partially masked by the 3.3kHz peak. It could be steeper to make that 'ideal' B&K curve but my primary determination tool are my ears and how things sound rather than strictly following the REW results.

    I don't know what further playing with SO will do nor adding some more acoustic panelling (which is still on the cards).

    I may find that the sound does need tweaking after more listening in which case I'll need to get back to Neil.

    Regards

    Richard
     
  14. Purité Audio

    Purité Audio Trade: Purite Audio

    ‘Usually’ one looks for a 10dB drop from 20-20kHz, an anechoically flat loudspeaker again usually produces this slope in room.
    Are there any original in-room measurements for the Isobariks?
    Keith
     
  15. Richard Lines

    Richard Lines pfm Member

    Keith,

    Unfortunately not as I didn't have the REW/ Umik-1 at that point.

    Regards

    Richard
     
  16. sunbeamgls

    sunbeamgls pfm Member

    Whatever "ideal" reference you might like to choose, whilst its something to consider as an input, there's only one answer.

    Richard is right - if he's engaged with and enjoying the music, that's the important bit.
     
    nostromo likes this.
  17. nostromo

    nostromo pfm Member

    I used have Dirac and spent months setting thing up and having several correction modes and curves. Then spent months deciding what worked best. Ultimately I found the music lost its 'soul' and I found myself gradually listening and enjoying less.

    Then out of the blue I turned Dirac off one evening and found I was enjoying my music again.... After that night and subsequent days, I deleted Dirac and have never looked back. I have a messy non-ideal room response according to Dirac, but I couldn't care less as all that processing sucks the life and soul out of the music. Technically it may not be correct, but emotionally its far better.

    I did try hard to get things working... I'm just glad I fortituously turned it off one night.

    What I learnt is that careful speaker positioning/toe-in and trying the long wall out and adjusting the distance from the back wall in 1cm increments is far better than any DSP.
     
    Sean K, wow&flutter, AndyU and 2 others like this.
  18. sunbeamgls

    sunbeamgls pfm Member

    It is often said that about processing like Dirac. Say what you like about Linn, but they recognise that. SPACE only deals with the room modes below about 80Hz because they're big and relatively easy to tackle without screwing up the music, in fact it benefits the musical message.
    Graph worshippers struggle with that concept, possibly because the hifi is more important to them than the music?
     
    nostromo likes this.
  19. nostromo

    nostromo pfm Member

    The ultimate goal of software like Dirac must be to make all systems (speakers) sound the same. The thrill of Isobariks is that they are different. Forcing them to behave conveniently is a silly idea it defeats the point of owning them.

    I would probably only use Space if I really had to and would go a long way in adjusting the position of everything in the room before that point. It really is a last resort. Perhaps I would change speakers first too.
     
  20. sunbeamgls

    sunbeamgls pfm Member

    Used correctly, SPACE is always the "last resort", it says that in the manual - everything you say about positioning is part of tune dem, Linn specifically say not to use SPACE until tune demming the speakers to their best location has been achieved. Where last resort = the one before filling your room with massive stacks of bass absorbent materials
     
    nostromo likes this.

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