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Oh Britain, what have you done (part XXII)?

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They'll be busy. The old station hotel is now a Spoons and it's one of the busiest pubs in Grimsby. One of the better ones, too, oddly enough. The one in Cleethorpes is also huge, almost as busy, but less interesting. It's just a bloody big barn. I'm not sure either place houses many remainers, perhaps they should use the space to house the stocks for the dissenters.
 
NeilR said:
My only concern with this is what happens if Parliament votes against the final deal?

Hard Brexit without any agreement? Not an ideal situation, surely?
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Well, I saw the bit in the debate when Davis was asked about this. I think a Brexitier asked the question. Certainly a Tory. He asked if Parliament rejecting the deal would still mean that we would leave on March 30th 2019.

Davis answered with just a "Yes". That was it. He actually had to repeat it at it wasn't a very loud answer.

Edit: Actually, he didn't repeat it. The speaker did. Here's the question and answer http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/80eae04b-3b57-4854-988c-05780460ea52?in=16:41:16
 
ah. why was i silly enough to think they might have acquired a few more iq points?
 
Did I hear correctly-the government will leap to the infamous hard Brexit if Parliament votes against their deal? It's all getting a bit unfocused and a bit desperate. The problem is, this will play out badly in the Shires. An incompetent government unable to manage the very situation they created, will provoke civil disorder and a flight of EU workers and investment. Chinless Dave's gift to the nation will go down in history.
 
He's the ultimate political passive aggressive- you can vote me down but it's straight to the head shot if you do. This is the ludicrous negotiating position the EU have been confronted with- he's telling them he'll shoot if they don't give him what he wants and he's turning round to his own Parliament making the same threat. Maybe he will shoot himself, maybe someone will cart him off before he harms anyone.
I've never seem shit like this in my adult life. This is the place our country has been taken to by a corrupted, incompetent party.
 
TheDecameron said:
Did I hear correctly-the government will leap to the infamous hard Brexit if Parliament votes against their deal? It's all getting a bit unfocused and a bit desperate. The problem is, this will play out badly in the Shires. An incompetent government unable to manage the very situation they created, will provoke civil disorder and a flight of EU workers and investment. Chinless Dave's gift to the nation will go down in history.
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You know that film Speed with Keanu Reeves with the bus that cannot be stopped? Well, Brexit is like that.

Brexit cannot be stopped. If they try and stop Brexit, the Conservative Party blows up. Like the bus in Speed.

The Will of the People™... Coming to a cinema near you (in March 2019).
 
notaclue said:
Well, I saw the bit in the debate when Davis was asked about this. I think a Brexitier asked the question. Certainly a Tory. He asked if Parliament rejecting the deal would still mean that we would leave on March 30th 2019.

Davis answered with just a "Yes". That was it. He actually had to repeat it at it wasn't a very loud answer.

Edit: Actually, he didn't repeat it. The speaker did. Here's the question and answer http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/80eae04b-3b57-4854-988c-05780460ea52?in=16:41:16
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Can someone who knows more than I do comment whether that is legally valid or not ? I always thought Parliament had the final say ?
 
Ciunas Audio said:
Looking at the poll numbers for a second referendum, I see only 41% support it, 48% don't & 12% don't know.
I guess it needs to swing into major support numbers before such a move would be considered democratic?
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It is too early as for those who don’t have savings or run businesses little has actually happened yet. Any second referendum will have to happen later when folk who voted for it actually grasp they have really damaged themselves, lost their jobs, their future prospects etc. As such I suspect we are going to have to have our Tory-Brexit, crash and burn into mass unemployment, extortionate inflation etc, then eat some humble pie and try to rejoin on terms even remotely as good as those we previously had. It will not be pretty. To my mind the only thing that can possibly alter the trajectory is if the EU itself collapses and many countries descend into the fascism that appears on the rise globally. That is an especially dark prospect I really hope I never see.
 
Tony L said:
... try to rejoin on terms even remotely as good as those we previously had.
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The EU would never let us rejoin, it's just too disruptive. The best they'd allow is for the UK to pay them a load of money for access, and have to accept EU jurisdiction on the key matters without a say.
 
No reason why they wouldn't. Brexit is lose-lose remember (although rEU-side losses are diluted x27). They might not be able to stomach our immediate return after all the Brexit aggro but I'm sure we'd be able to rejoin in 5-10 years time (on less favourable terms than we have now, of course).
 
Could Sunderland down to Clacton not be declared a Brexitstan, with its own predecimal currency and control over its cucumbers?
 
wacko said:
Can someone who knows more than I do comment whether that is legally valid or not ? I always thought Parliament had the final say ?
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Parliament has already had its say, voting by a large majority to trigger Article 50, earlier this year.
The opportunity to debate and vote on this "deal", relates to any agreement reached with the EU regarding the terms of the UK's departure from the EU on the 19th March 2019.
This may or may not include the "future relationship" ....and it's looking increasingly likely that it may not, looking at the available timescale.

It's very straightforward.
If no agreement is reached with the EU, there will be nothing for parliament to debate and vote on.
If an agreement is reached with the EU, a rejection of that agreement by parliament will effectively mean we will leave without a deal.

There would be b*gger all chance of going back to the EU to try and get a better deal; notwithstanding that the other 27 member States will also be required to vote on whether or not to accept the agreement.
If any of the 27 vote against the "deal", it will be dead in the water anyway.
If all 27 vote in favour of the "deal" and the UK parliament rejects it, it'll be rather academic as not only would the chances of the EU being prepared to renegotiate be extremely slim, but I think it very likely that a firm position will be taken that the 27 have made their decision.

If any agreement between the EU and the UK is reached at the "eleventh hour", or even after the 19th March 2019, it will either be too late for parliament to vote before that date, or the UK will have already ceased to be a member of the EU.

Whatever is agreed between the EU and UK, if anything at all, that will be it ...and realistically, parliament will only have a take it or leave it choice.
That's not a Tory position, but practical reality. Any other UK government taking us through Brexit would find themselves in the same position, whether they liked it or not.



 
TheDecameron said:
Did I hear correctly-the government will leap to the infamous hard Brexit if Parliament votes against their deal? It's all getting a bit unfocused and a bit desperate. The problem is, this will play out badly in the Shires. An incompetent government unable to manage the very situation they created, will provoke civil disorder and a flight of EU workers and investment. Chinless Dave's gift to the nation will go down in history.
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There won’t be a deal. I think their intention is to keep pissing about until hard Brexit is the only option. We’re f***ed.
 
I see the Klingons have been watching Toast of London.

"It's you ... Clem Fandango."

(admittedly the last part was a bit muffled)

Stephen
 
In a meeting today, Theresa May Reassures the business community on Brexit.

But those present at the meeting said participants were frustrated at the apparent lack of urgency.

Danny McCoy, the chief executive officer of Ibec, Ireland’s equivalent of the CBI, said its message to May was clear: “Business is increasingly frustrated and concerned at the lack of progress in negotiations. To move past the first phase of talks, which covers Ireland, the financial settlement and citizens’ rights, we need practical solutions and firm commitments, not just rhetoric.”

Speaking after the meeting, McCoy urged the government to stop treating Brexit like an opportunity for short-term gain and to focus on the long-term consequences.
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Marcegaglia also said she saw little sign of movement by the British government, which did not mention the divorce bill and called instead for more movement from EU governments to clarify what they want.
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Sounds like it all went very well.
 
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