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Oh Britain, what have you done (part ∞+9)?

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What is driving Teresa may , is it the rich , was she never going to deliver Brexit , is she trying to keep both happy , was her aim to change leave into remain and go back in in the following years , opinions please phil.
 
PsB said:
Yes, I've noticed by now. You refuse to acknowledge the ticking clock, the calendar and the simple fact that 27 other parties to the negotiation may have their own interests and points of view. The world revolves around Whitehall. This enables you to dream up scenarios that make you feel good about Labour's lack of opposition to Brexit.

I am viscerally opposed to May's Brexit. I wish one could say the same about your party.
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Labour are viscerally opposed to May's Brexit. That was easy.
 
PsB said:
Yes, I've noticed by now. You refuse to acknowledge the ticking clock, the calendar and the simple fact that 27 other parties to the negotiation may have their own interests and points of view. The world revolves around Whitehall. This enables you to dream up scenarios that make you feel good about Labour's lack of opposition to Brexit.

I am viscerally opposed to May's Brexit. I wish one could say the same about your party.
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Labour have been absolutely unequivocal in their opposition to May’s deal, and they’re going to kill it, so...what? The rest of your post is equally bewildering: I don’t think it has anything to do with me or Labour. I guess we’re all just shouting at ourselves here but still.
 
I don't remember either side, Remain or Leave, arguing during the referendum that it was a referendum to instruct negotiations on the UK leaving the EU to be undertaken and that at the end of these negotiations there would be a second referendum to pass judgement on the outcome of the negotiations. It is dishonest to suggest this now. It is just another version of "the people were too stupid/conned/asleep" argument.

If there is legislative impasse in Parliament this may be an argument for a second referendum.
 
Delusional Et I am afraid. That quote is out of context. Jrm is a bark raving mad rabid dog imho. Leo is advising we want no barriers. CU or no brexit delivers that. That is what he is saying. If the UK want brexit well they can design a no border between Ireland and Ireland. Jrm is tongue tied when asked to explain how that would work. But he specialises in gormless gibberish. A lot of your electorate seem to like that.

eternumviti said:
Varadkar on the border last week;

“What we’re not going to do is to design a border for the Brexiteers because they’re the ones who want a border. It’s up to them to say what it is, say how it would work and first of all convince their own people, their own voters that this is actually a good idea,” Mr Varadkar said.

Mr Varadkar said there was a political border between the Republic and Northern Ireland, but not an economic one.

“As far as this Government is concerned there shouldn’t be an economic border. We don’t want one,” he said.

“It’s the UK, it’s Britain that has decided to leave and if they want to put forward smart solutions, technological solutions for borders of the future and all of that that’s up to them.

“We’re not going to be doing that work for them because we don’t think there should be an economic border at all. That is our position. It is our position in negotiations with the British Government and it’s the very clear positionthat we have when we engage with the task force that is negotiating on our behalf with the UK.”

So, the UK won't put up border installations, and neither will the Irish. Mogg, dare I say it, had a point.

The NI/Ireland border is a bluff. The govt should never have allowed the EU to lure it into that particular trap.
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eternumviti said:
Maybe a tiny bit, but mainly so that a Labour government circumvent EU restrictions in order to carry out a true socialist agenda, you know, state aid for failing industries, nationalisation of private companies, expropriation of private and commercial property, that kind of thing. I thought that was what you wanted.
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Drivel. And showing your true motivations.
 
ewencummins said:
I don't remember either side, Remain or Leave, arguing during the referendum that it was a referendum to instruct negotiations on the UK leaving the EU to be undertaken and that at the end of these negotiations there would be a second referendum to pass judgement on the outcome of the negotiations. It is dishonest to suggest this now. It is just another version of "the people were too stupid/conned/asleep" argument.

If there is legislative impasse in Parliament this may be an argument for a second referendum.
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The 2016 referendum was deeply flawed in so many ways. May's Government has no mandate or obligation to follow the advisory 'instruction'.

So anything is possible.

Stephen
 
stephen bennett said:
93% apparently.

'Only seven per cent of people who voted for Ukip in the 2015 general election also voted to remain in the European Union, a YouGov poll shows.'

Stephen
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I think they must have forgotten which side of the table they were supposed to be playing- a bit like EV here when he’s too busy to remember that he’s supposed to be playing the part of the compassionate socialist Brexiter.
 
ian123running said:
Et that is nonsense. Loads of the EU’s programmes and expenditure are wonderfully socialist and there have surely been socialist governments within the EU family.
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I would argue that most governments in the EU countries are classic social-democrat. Free markets, private ownership of business and so on, allied to high social welfare policies. Sweden is a perfect case in point. There are and have been no radical socialist governments of the kind that Corbyn would like, apart from in Greece, and look what happened to that.

tuga said:
See, the EU isn't all bad...

And I've yet to see signs of people wanting a Soviet-style government here or anywhere else in Europe.
I am a lot more worried with the rise of the far-right...
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No, but Corbyn/Macdonnell/Abbott/Momentum, whilst not 'Soviet-style', is certainly veering sharply in the direction of Marxist/statist.

I agree with your concerns about the far right. It is worth asking yourself what factors have stimulated this.

TheDecameron said:
You’re forgetting your favourite Socialist EU country aren’t you? The one you’ve made impassioned pleas about- for having their very generous public spending taken away by...the big bad EU.
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Very precisely, far from forgotten, and a perfect example of the EU's take on radical left-wing governments. Syriza is, or was, ideologically closely aligned with Corbyn Labour, and look what happened to them. The EC/ECB/IMF troika sharply pulled the rug from under their feet, and then proceeded to administer a good, old-fashioned punishment beating to the country which continues to this day, and will do so for decades to come. It could be argued that Syriza was the EU's first populist uprising, but little Greece was easy meat for the EU's institutional bullies.[/QUOTE]

TheDecameron said:
But I thought you liked state intervention- you know, protect us from the globalist big corps. Your ‘anti globalist’ and ‘anti-business elites’ stance, not to mention the poor African farmers. You were sounding very “Labour” then. What happened? Which one’s the troll post? You’re about as anti- business elites as Aaron Banks or Richard Tice.
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I am pro-business and pro-capitalist, but also believe that capitalism need to be contained, entirely due to human tendency to greed and excess. That an organisation might offer Boris J nearly £100k to hold forth for two hours, and for Boris J, an already exceptionally wealthy conservative politician to accept it, usefully demonstrates both that the accord between responsible capitalism and moral society in this country has collapsed, and that conservatism has entirely lost its moral footing. I don't believe that Corbyn Labour will provide the solution, or any solution. It is entirely evident that the EU, a neoliberalist club if ever there were one, fails to provide the answer either. It is completely in thrall to, indeed largely owned by, BigCorp globalists and bankers. With 30,000 odd industry lobbyists crawling all over its institutions, it sets the agenda, and frames the rules, and frames them to suit itself and squeeze the small, innovative competitor out with expensive regulations. Witness VW 'dieselgate', which happened entirely on the watch of the European Commission.
 
tonerei said:
Delusional Et I am afraid. That quote is out of context. Jrm is a bark raving mad rabid dog imho. Leo is advising we want no barriers. CU or no brexit delivers that. That is what he is saying. If the UK want brexit well they can design a no border between Ireland and Ireland. Jrm is tongue tied when asked to explain how that would work. But he specialises in gormless gibberish. A lot of your electorate seem to like that.
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Context? Varadkar has stated that Ireland will not place a hard border between the Republic and Ulster. Neither will the UK.

Who will then? You tell me.

JRM might be all manner of things, but as far as I'm aware he isn't an IT specialist. Do you know what blockchain is? I don't. Apparently it can provide the solution.

Mullardman said:
Drivel. And showing your true motivations.
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OK, so you tell me why Corbyn wants the UK to leave the EU.
 
TheDecameron said:
So which political party do you vote for?
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Very reluctantly, Conservative, as well you know because I've said it before. Why? Because my MP voted to take the UK out of the EU. And to keep Corbyn out. I am pro-capitalist, pro-business, pro private ownership etc. He isn't.

Greens, Libdems, all pro-EU. And no, please don't ask why I didn't vote UKIP.

Next time? God, I don't know. Perhaps this country actually needs a good, hard dose of Corbynism to wake it out of its stupor.
 
oceanobsession said:
What is driving Teresa may , is it the rich , was she never going to deliver Brexit , is she trying to keep both happy , was her aim to change leave into remain and go back in in the following years , opinions please phil.
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She hates immigrants. This was behind her policies at the Home Office and is being stressed about Brexit.

Sky and the BBC are backing this up. We are apparently being invaded by Iranians according to the government yesterday.

Jack
 
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