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Oh Britain, what have you done (part ∞+3)?

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Meanwhile the Labour position on Brexit continues to amuse, as observed by Daniel Finkelstein in The Times. It was a toe curling moment for BG - he could have stuck to his private aside and gained some credibility, but no. Back to the absurd party line.

"On Sunday, the Labour shadow cabinet member Barry Gardiner defended Labour’s position that any deal with the EU must secure the same benefits as membership of the single market, despite not being in it.

Mr Gardiner struggled a little during his appearance on the BBC because, as a recording showed, he had once privately (and accurately) described this position as “bollocks”.
 
I think we are moving closer to accepting the Norway option (EEA membership). I am, if not exactly ecstatic, reasonably sanguine if that is the outcome. We can retain free movement, customs union, etc, but we have a little more latitude about how EU legislation is implemented domestically, and we can make trade deals unilaterally. That would seem to accommodate the majority of Brexitiers' red lines, while also keeping key benefits of EU membership for those of us who still value them.

It is also rather closer to the 'EEC' we joined in the 1970s, and if the UK joined the EEA/EFTA, the bloc as a whole would immediately become a more substantial creature in itself (something Norway recognises, with approval) and even if we lose voting rights, we retain our soft power, and our ability to broker workable compromises is something I know the EC has benefited from immensely over the years.

And, we get rid of our MEPs, which chucks a good handful of UKIP oxygen thieves overboard. That's got to be a win, surely?
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
And, we get rid of our MEPs, which chucks a good handful of UKIP oxygen thieves overboard. That's got to be a win, surely?
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Only if I can hack the duplicitous moneygrabbing shits to pieces with a meat cleaver first. Slowly. Over the course of several days. Pour encourager les autres.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
I think we are moving closer to accepting the Norway option (EEA membership). I am, if not exactly ecstatic, reasonably sanguine if that is the outcome. We can retain free movement, customs union, etc, but we have a little more latitude about how EU legislation is implemented domestically, and we can make trade deals unilaterally. That would seem to accommodate the majority of Brexitiers' red lines, while also keeping key benefits of EU membership for those of us who still value them.

It is also rather closer to the 'EEC' we joined in the 1970s, and if the UK joined the EEA/EFTA, the bloc as a whole would immediately become a more substantial creature in itself (something Norway recognises, with approval) and even if we lose voting rights, we retain our soft power, and our ability to broker workable compromises is something I know the EC has benefited from immensely over the years.

And, we get rid of our MEPs, which chucks a good handful of UKIP oxygen thieves overboard. That's got to be a win, surely?
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I really do hope you are right, 'though I'm not sure I share your optimism.

If it were clearly stated Labour policy then they'd have my vote!
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
I think we are moving closer to accepting the Norway option (EEA membership) ... That's got to be a win, surely?
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It's an outcome that truly respects the referendum vote. However, as usual, it's worse than we have now but better than a complete break.

If the disgraced Liam Fox and his ilk get their way with the latter, we'll be truly fooked. I fear that's where we are heading though.

Stephen
 
TheDecameron said:
How do you find the defendant?

In the dock, over there m’Lud.
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source: Tit-Bits magazine
 
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Nicky Morgan nails it in her summary of Max Fac:

I want to summarise where I think we are at the end of this session ... We are going to have a functioning but sub-optimal border on January 2021 where there will be a trade off between friction, revenue and security. It will take three to five years [to get new customs arrangements in place] depending on which of the two options [is chosen], but that can’t even start until a political decision has been made.

HMRS is recruiting about 5,000 people to make this happen, leaving aside people at the border.

The highly streamlined option is going to cost businesses £32.50, approximately, per customs declaration. That’s a cost of between £17bn and £20bn a year. The NCP (new customs partnership) will have set up costs of about £700m but could be ultimately net neutral [in terms of costs for business] if tariffs are reclaimed.

Just in this current financial year [HMRC is spending £260m implementing Brexit]. And there are 39 other HMRC projects which have either had to be stopped or significantly slowed down in order to get Brexit through.

I’m going to ask you an unfair question now which I strongly suspect you will not want to, or not be able to, answer. But wouldn’t it be a relief if parliament just voted for a customs union?
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Total insanity, all just to keep the Tory party in one piece.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ardy-through-cabinet-infighting-politics-live
 
NeilR said:
Nicky Morgan nails it in her summary of Max Fac:



Total insanity, all just to keep the Tory party in one piece.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ardy-through-cabinet-infighting-politics-live
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They are quoting HMRC predictions of recurring costs to business of £20bn pa (if the hard Brexit Tories get their way) on R4 News just now. Then there will be the cost of monumental disinvestment on top- that’ll come after Johnson, Fox, Gove and Davis fire the starting pistol on the Charge of the Light Brigade. Mogg will remain at camp with a sore knee, egging them on, ready to cash in on the chaos.
 
I’m left wondering at what point the Tories’ mega capitalist backers will be wanting a quiet word.

Edit: I’m now seeing ads for NetJets. Type ‘mega capitalist’ and look what happens. Algorithms eh?
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
I’m left wondering at what point the Tories’ mega capitalist backers will be wanting a quiet word.

Edit: I’m now seeing ads for NetJets. Type ‘mega capitalist’ and look what happens. Algorithms eh?
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It will have been going on quietly behind the scenes on a continuing basis. They can’t be seen to be “interfering in politics” never mind Defying Thewillofthepoeople. I’d still love to see the promises made to Nissan and others to keep them quiet.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
I’m left wondering at what point the Tories’ mega capitalist backers will be wanting a quiet word.

Edit: I’m now seeing ads for NetJets. Type ‘mega capitalist’ and look what happens. Algorithms eh?
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The MCBs make money off chaos, of which there will be lots.
 
As if by magic the DM’s Andrew Pierce is on Sky claiming HMRC “is part of Project Fear, everyone’s talking down Britain, experts don’t know what they’re talking about”.He’s now threatening withdrawal of security cooperation with Europe again after May dropped that one smartish. “Germany runs Europe” etc. This is the clown who cost Dacre money by trying to blacken the reputation of Damien Green’s groping victim before he got the sack. He’s Kelvin Mackenzie with more hair.
 
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I do wonder how long-time Conservative voters feel about their party today.

Small business/farmer friendly? Not with Tory Brexit they're not. Thatchers EU single market? She was wrong. No tax rises? £2000 per household for the NHS. Lower student fees?

Sajid Javid has just been on Radio 4 saying the party's previous approach to prisons (lock up and throw away the key) was a mistake and we should now go for education/early release. Restrictions on cars and driving, Gove pushing a green agenda.

I'm sure most of these will be thrown out once the Mail complains (bar Brexit), but I guess it's the party nervous of what will happen when even the young right-wing whippersnappers on PFM shuffle off this Mortal Coil (two great albums).

Stephen
 
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