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Oh Britain, what have you done (part ∞+24)?

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I suppose I could create an alter-ego for myself, and we could like each other.

How about eternumdeffesus?
 
eternumviti said:
I think that pretty much sums it up. I provided a perfectly compelling if broad sweep case against the EU, you simply casually brushed it away with a catch-all whataboutism.
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You say that you have heard no compelling argument in favour of Brexit. Well give me a compelling argument in favour of the EU. I have often asked through this debate, but have never received.
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I think the fundamental difference here (aside from where we may disagree on the scale and incorrigibility of the EU’s wickedness) is that I don’t see how the U.K. leaving, and impoverishing and weakening itself in the process, helps.

It feels like ‘out of the frying pan, into the fire’ and, post Brexit we’ll have to mix it with the likes of the US, Russia and China. How is that better?

Essentially, your ‘positive’ argument for Brexit is that the EU is bad. That’s not a positive argument. Not saying it’s invalid, but it’s not positive, is it?

Whether you disparage my woolly ‘community’ argument or not, it is an honest, albeit emotional rather than logical, position.
 
eternumviti said:
I suppose I could create an alter-ego for myself, and we could like each other.

How about eternumdeffesus?
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The trick to carrying that off successfully is to have them arguing with each other, then after a reconciliation and hasty courtship they can lick each other’s heads publicly or to make it less conspicuous only add likes after other people have liked then you have the veil of “and 3 other liked this” to cover your work.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
I think the fundamental difference here (aside from where we may disagree on the scale and incorrigibility of the EU’s wickedness) is that I don’t see how the U.K. leaving, and impoverishing and weakening itself in the process, helps.

It feels like ‘out of the frying pan, into the fire’ and, post Brexit we’ll have to mix it with the likes of the US, Russia and China. How is that better?

Essentially, your ‘positive’ argument for Brexit is that the EU is bad. That’s not a positive argument. Not saying it’s invalid, but it’s not positive, is it?

Whether you disparage my woolly ‘community’ argument or not, it is an honest, albeit emotional rather than logical, position.
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Yes, and I think that some of this has informed me all along. I wasn't a 'hard' leaver in the referendum, I teetered on the ridgeline. I still do to some degree.

Your 'positive' argument for the EU is that it may (or may not) be bad, but it may be better than the US. That isn't a positive argument either.
 
TheDecameron said:
The trick to carrying that off successfully is to have them arguing with each other, then after a reconciliation and hasty courtship they can lick each other’s heads publicly or to make it less conspicuous only add likes after other people have liked then you have the veil of “and 3 other liked this” to cover your work.
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That sounds like a stack of fun, but I feel a bit uneasy about it because it sounds a bit like BJ writing the two speeches, one for and one against, before he 'came out'.

Its all slightly Oxford Union, though that mightn't be so bad.
 
eternumviti said:
Yes, and I think that some of this has informed me all along. I wasn't a 'hard' leaver in the referendum, I teetered on the ridgeline. I still do to some degree.

Your 'positive' argument for the EU is that it may (or may not) be bad, but it may be better than the US. That isn't a positive argument either.
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Well to be fair, proving negatives in the face of unsupported optimism with a patriotic slant was never going to be easy. Add the fact that many might just have wanted it to spite Dave or stick it up the government and it becomes even harder.

On the subject of avoiding answers, I have asked you and other Brexiteers the same question on several occasions. At what point does Brexit become against our interests? We have staggeringly low levels of investment currently and the prospect of future trade imbalance worsening further as favourable terms are replaced with increasingly desperate replacements. So how much damage had to be done to restore sovereignty we never lost and regain control that affected pretty much nobody?
 
SteveS1 said:
Well to be fair, proving negatives in the face of unsupported optimism with a patriotic slant was never going to be easy. Add the fact that many might just have wanted it to spite Dave or stick it up the government and it becomes even harder.

On the subject of avoiding answers, I have asked you and other Brexiteers the same question on several occasions. At what point does Brexit become against our interests? We have staggeringly low levels of investment currently and the prospect of future trade imbalance worsening further as favourable terms are replaced with increasingly desperate replacements. So how much damage had to be done to restore sovereignty we never lost and regain control that affected pretty much nobody?
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Britain, like the pound will have to fall to its new more realistic level on the global stage. I think even the Tories while blathering on about Global leaders in xxx, realise it. Gore Vidal wrote 30 years ago in in one of his essays that one day Britain would just become a US aircraft carrier off the coast of Europe and a boutique shopping experience for tourists.
 
SteveS1 said:
Well to be fair, proving negatives in the face of unsupported optimism with a patriotic slant was never going to be easy. Add the fact that many might just have wanted it to spite Dave or stick it up the government and it becomes even harder.

On the subject of avoiding answers, I have asked you and other Brexiteers the same question on several occasions. At what point does Brexit become against our interests? We have staggeringly low levels of investment currently and the prospect of future trade imbalance worsening further as favourable terms are replaced with increasingly desperate replacements. So how much damage had to be done to restore sovereignty we never lost and regain control that affected pretty much nobody?
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Well I can't really answer it because to do so would be to concede the points in your final sentence.

However, if we pretend for a mo to dock it out, the answer is that I don't know.
 
TheDecameron said:
Britain, like the pound will have to fall to its new more realistic level on the global stage. I think even the Tories while blathering on about Global leaders in xxx, realise it. Gore Vidal wrote 30 years ago in in one of his essays that one day Britain would just become a US aircraft carrier off the coast of Europe and a boutique shopping experience for tourists.
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I think that when Gore Vidal wrote that Britain was a US aircraft carrier off the coast of Europe.
 
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