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Oh Britain, what have you done (part ∞+24)?

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Colin Barron said:
Tariffs are a tax on the poor in Africa and Europe. How does that square with your ethics.
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Tariffs are a fact of life. Brexit won't remove tariffs at a stroke. And all the countries we're hoping to do trade deals with, well the reason we need trade deals is because they impose tariffs. Or they dump stuff. The deals are about the tariffs, aren't they? And in some cases, tariffs are to prevent dumping. So there will still be tariffs, they'll just be different to EU tariffs.
 
eternumviti said:
I claim no monopoly.

Is the democratic vaccum throughout the EU institutions ethical? Is the corruption, the cronyism and the nepotism ethical? Is the grandstanding by, and the special tax and benefit breaks for, the Brussels 'élite' ethical? Is the cosying up to the global corporations ethical? Is the 3% and their 12% of useful idiots deployed to terrify or numb into submission the 40% ethical? Is the building of an armed empire without the consent of the people ethical? Is the built-in iniquity of the Euro in favour of German industry and illegal surplus ethical? The special dispensation given to France and Germany on the matter of deficits and surpluses? The evisceration of Greece, the technocratic takeover of Italy & Spain, the pregnant silence over Catalonia, the hounding of France and Ireland, and now of the UK? Are the razor-wire and the armed guards all around the EU's east and south-facing landward and seaward borders ethical?
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I think this is a critique of geopolitics and globalism generally. The EU is no more egregious in my view than, say, the USA, and considerably better than many places. I fear you are in danger of letting the best be the enemy of the good (or at least, the ideals be the enemy of the least bad).
 
Colin Barron said:
Was that the 16% tariff on african oranges, a tax on the poor, to our federal masters.
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You like using imagery like “masters” a lot. More to the point- what’s going to happen if no import tariffs are applied to all manner of agricultural produce already grown here? Your a numbers man, surely you don’t need me to tell you.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
Tariffs are a fact of life. Brexit won't remove tariffs at a stroke. .
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Well we could unilaterally impose zero import tariffs at all our borders under WTO.

Some prominent Brexiteers are saying just that in the hope that the EU will do the same and solve the UK border question in Ireland. The EU is unlikely to do this for what I hope are obvious reasons and it won't solve migration and other non-tariff issues anyhow.

It would kill UK agriculture and manufacturing, but that's what Brexiteer economist Minford expects and wants to happen.

Stephen
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
Tariffs are a fact of life. Brexit won't remove tariffs at a stroke. And all the countries we're hoping to do trade deals with, well the reason we need trade deals is because they impose tariffs. Or they dump stuff. The deals are about the tariffs, aren't they? And in some cases, tariffs are to prevent dumping. So there will still be tariffs, they'll just be different to EU tariffs.
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Tariff 16% on oranges, as far as i know the UK does not grow many oranges.

Tariff 10% on Japanese cars to be scrapped (over 8 years). There is now no reason for the Japanese to produce cars in the UK or Europe. Still we will benefit (or maybe not) by a reduction in tariff on goods exported to Japan the big reductions are wine, cheese and chocolate.
 
As an aside, does anyone know if we can actually join the WTO in November?

Have we sorted the WTO EU/UK tariff splits yet and other issues with WTO members?

Stephen
 
stephen bennett said:
Well we could unilaterally impose zero import tariffs at all our borders under WTO.

Some prominent Brexiteers are saying just that in the hope that the EU will do the same and solve the UK border question in Ireland. The EU is unlikely to do this for what I hope are obvious reasons and it won't solve migration and other non-tariff issues anyhow.

It would kill UK agriculture and manufacturing, but that's what Brexiteer economist Minford expects and wants to happen.

Stephen
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Who said anything about zero tariff? My complaint is tariffs that effect the poor and handing the tariffs collected to the EU to subsidise our competitors.
 
Colin Barron said:
Who said anything about zero tariff? My complaint is tariffs that effect the poor and handing the tariffs collected to the EU to subsidise our competitors.
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I wasn't replying to any comments you made. I was replying to Steve.

I am more interested in what will happen when we leave the EU tbh.

Stephen
 
Some brexitmonger on Newsnight from a political party I’ve never heard of saying more or less people voted to take back control, what’s the problem with tariffs on our exports? He obviously hasn’t asked the farming and fishery sectors. Their biggest export market is Europe. Is he thinking of a langoustine marketing initiative in Sunderland?
 
Colin Barron said:
Tariff 16% on oranges, as far as i know the UK does not grow many oranges.

Tariff 10% on Japanese cars to be scrapped (over 8 years). There is now no reason for the Japanese to produce cars in the UK or Europe. Still we will benefit (or maybe not) by a reduction in tariff on goods exported to Japan the big reductions are wine, cheese and chocolate.
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You seem to be arguing, on the one hand, that tariffs are bad (16% on oranges) and, on the other, that tariffs are good (no tariffs=no Japanese car manufacturing). I can’t really respond to a position as incoherent as that.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
You seem to be arguing, on the one hand, that tariffs are bad (16% on oranges) and, on the other, that tariffs are good (no tariffs=no Japanese car manufacturing). I can’t really respond to a position as incoherent as that.
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My argument is that the tariffs are not geared for UK benefits and the £1.6 billion collected goes into the EU coffers to subsidise our competitors.
 
I'm just so hoping Johnson isn't minded to call an immediate GE. There is no doubt in my mind that his stock will wane as he has to choose who to piss off. If he calls one now, he will get peak honeymoon and that represents by far the biggest threat. With any luck his usual hubris will lead him into thinking it's all on without bothering.
 
Colin Barron said:
...and the £1.6 billion collected goes into the EU coffers to subsidise our competitors.
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Do you think it's wrong for taxes raised in that London to subsidise other, poorer, regions of the country? I once worked with someone who thought London should be a separate 'country' and keep all its money for itself. I'm not sure he was joking.
 
SteveS1 said:
I'm just so hoping Johnson isn't minded to call an immediate GE. There is no doubt in my mind that his stock will wane as he has to choose who to piss off. If he calls one now, he will get peak honeymoon and that represents by far the biggest threat. With any luck his usual hubris will lead him into thinking it's all on without bothering.
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I'm pretty sure he's planning to call one after Brexit is dealt with
 
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