Next Labour Leader II

[gassor]

If you're trying to create a fantasy Britain of woke trans teenagers, Asian grooming gangs and terrorist-supporting Labour politicians then do you want your readers to engage rigorously and at length with your concoctions, or would you rather they cast a horrified eye over it all before passing on to something sunnier? Doesn't even take 2 minutes: you can soak up all this poison in 10 seconds on the way past the news stands, if you're in the mood, which let's face it the average Tory voter always is.

I think the "Tory propaganda machine" is pleased enough with people's lack of interest in politics, since in the end that's what it's trying to produce. Lack of interest in politics goes very well with the absolutely burning conviction that somebody somewhere is trying to mug you off and needs to get what's coming to them, which is where the Conservatives come in.

And there's me thinking that subliminal advertising had been shown to be ineffective. Thing is you can either soak up the 'poison' or if you're not interested in the first place then it is more likely you will ignore it altogether.

As for your second para, is it not the case that young people show the greatest lack of interest in politics of any age group, yet they are the most like to vote Labour or Green?

 

[Seanm]

And there's me thinking that subliminal advertising had been shown to be ineffective. Thing is you can either soak up the 'poison' or if you're not interested in the first place then it is more likely you will ignore it altogether.

As for your second para, is it not the case that young people show the greatest lack of interest in politics of any age group, yet they are the most like to vote Labour or Green?

Subliminal advertising was a scam, but it was also something completely different from what we’re talking about here, which is headlines and articles designed to be consumed consciously but carelessly, and in a state of high dudgeon.

Young people are also positively discouraged by the media from engaging with politics, but are less inclined to express their lack of engagement through acts of resentment and spite, I.e. by voting Tory, partly because they’re the main object of Tory resentment and spite. Those that do develop an interest in politics obviously vote against the Tories, for the same reason.

 

[gassor]

Subliminal advertising was a scam, but it was also something completely different from what we’re talking about here, which is headlines and articles designed to be consumed consciously but carelessly, and in a state of high dudgeon.

Young people are also positively discouraged by the media from engaging with politics, but are less inclined to express their lack of engagement through acts of resentment and spite, I.e. by voting Tory, partly because they’re the main object of Tory resentment and spite. Those that do develop an interest in politics obviously vote against the Tories, for the same reason.

Or maybe that of all the factors that influence their voting habits the media does not play a big part.

 

[Tim Jones]

Young people are also positively discouraged by the media from engaging with politics, but are less inclined to express their lack of engagement through acts of resentment and spite, I.e. by voting Tory, partly because they’re the main object of Tory resentment and spite. Those that do develop an interest in politics obviously vote against the Tories, for the same reason.

I do appreciate that I'm a fascist bear-of-very-small-brain, but reading that sentence is like getting a bone stuck in your throat. I really would like to try to understand, but equally it's not easy with this kind of Henry James syntax. So young people are discouraged from voting Tory, but do vote Tory, but those who are interested vote against the Tories?

 

[Seanm]

Stick with it!

 

[Tony L]

Surely the only young people who vote Tory are the ones who’s multi-millionaire parents put them through Eton/Oxbridge or wherever? All the others will either have had to hock their future up for their further education or do without as they can’t afford it. Those will be the ones not voting Tory!

 

[Tim Jones]

Surely the only young people who vote Tory are the ones who’s multi-millionaire parents put them through Eton/Oxbridge or wherever? All the others will either have had to hock their future up for their further education or do without as they can’t afford it. Those will be the ones not voting Tory!

This is, to coin a phrase (and not that I mean to offend Tony), some right old patronising bollocks. I'm not the most under-privileged voter on the planet, but I've voted Tory precisely once (in 2010). A classic case of confusing your predilections with those of the electorate.

The key to Thatcher's success, and perhaps to Johnson's, is precisely that their voters, young or old, are not who you assume they are.

 

[Tony L]

The point I was trying to make is young folk just don’t vote Conservative in any numbers at all. Never have done, never will do. Have a look at Ashcroft’s polling data etc! It is less than a fifth, and I’m prepared to bet there is a very strong overlap between that fifth and parental wealth/privilege.

 

[Tim Jones]

The point I was trying to make is young folk just don’t vote Conservative in any numbers at all. Never have done, never will do. Have a look at Ashcroft’s polling data etc! It is less than a fifth, and I’m prepared to bet there is a very strong overlap between that fifth and parental wealth/privilege.

If you are willing to believe that only the rich vote Tory in order to make yourself feel better (and again, no offence intended), you have completely missed the point of decades of psephology. And the whole conundrum of the late-Capitalist left.

 

[Tony L]

If you think that only the rich vote Tory, you have completely missed the point of decades of psephology. And the whole conundrum of the left.

I am talking about young folk today, as you started off before the mission-creep. Obviously there has always been a hard-right working class vote fuelled-up by the gutter tabloids etc, but I don’t think you’ll find many young folk today amongst them. Again we are only talking about 19% of the 18-24 vote anyway.

 

[vuk]

If you are willing to believe that only the rich vote Tory in order to make yourself feel better (and again, no offence intended), you have completely missed the point of decades of psephology. And the whole conundrum of the late-Capitalist left.

i have to agree with this.

 

[Tim Jones]

It is less than a fifth, and I’m prepared to bet there is a very strong overlap between that fifth and parental wealth/privilege.

I'm not sure a psephologist of any standing would say that 20% isn't "any numbers at all". Equally, I'd take some convincing that 20% of "young people" are hanging at Bouji's, polo matches and around coke mountains. Perhaps some of them are with their parents in Westerhope, Burley, or Thirsk, thinking of a way out.

 

[Tim Jones]

i have to agree with this.

I think I've just had an orgasm.

 

[Woodface]

A percentage of young people have always voted Tory, a percentage of the unemployed have always voted Tory, this is why they often form governments.

 

[Woodface]

Subliminal advertising was a scam, but it was also something completely different from what we’re talking about here, which is headlines and articles designed to be consumed consciously but carelessly, and in a state of high dudgeon.

Young people are also positively discouraged by the media from engaging with politics, but are less inclined to express their lack of engagement through acts of resentment and spite, I.e. by voting Tory, partly because they’re the main object of Tory resentment and spite. Those that do develop an interest in politics obviously vote against the Tories, for the same reason.

There is quite a cross over between editorial & advertising in terms of how items are put together. The old creative rule of “tell them what your going to tell them, tell them & tell them again” is actually based upon a typical news bulletin.

Subliminal advertising is actually illegal but this is often confused with frequency of message which isn’t.

 

[Nigel]

Last night's Newsnight is worth watching. Debate between the four leadership hopefuls.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51482227

 

[Brian]

I'm not sure a psephologist of any standing would say that 20% isn't "any numbers at all". Equally, I'd take some convincing that 20% of "young people" are hanging at Bouji's, polo matches and around coke mountains. Perhaps some of them are with their parents in Westerhope, Burley, or Thirsk, thinking of a way out.

Point of order.

Nothing wrong with Westerhope. I was brought up on Newbiggin Hall Estate before we moved to that posh new place..West Denton.

 

[ks.234]

I like Starmer’s presentation. These are my ten key tenets. Labour policy was presented so badly at the last election . The broadband thing was absolute garbage, there was so much else that needed sorting first. ‘I have no position on Brexit but, allow me to gift you free broadband instead’. Seriously who advised him?
I voted Labour because I had to; my constituency still turned blue. If the left of the party doesn’t accept that they got it wrong there is no hope for us. A simple message, presented with clarity and some policies that chime with the electorate, not fanciful dreams that make half the country think they’ll be unemployed in two weeks time.
I’ve vacillated between Starmer and Nandy, I’ve pretty much chosen now. I can’t believe though that the idiotic Burgon is a serious contender for deputy. I’m hoping that either Rayner or Allin-Khan gets it. I’m hedging towards the latter.

The left has accepted it got things wrong. And accepted it loud and clear. The people who haven’t accepted they got things wrong are the hard centrists, the militant moderates, and the ‘everyone else is a thick racist’ Remainers.

Until other players accept their own part in the election disaster, and while they continue with their guilt transference, scapegoating, abuse and division, and fail to present some sort of united front, Johnson will be laughing all the way to his next majority.

 

[Seanm]

The left has accepted it got things wrong. And accepted it loud and clear. The people who haven’t accepted they got things wrong are the hard centrists, the militant moderates, and the ‘everyone else is a thick racist’ Remainers.

Until other players accept their own part in the election disaster, and while they continue with their guilt transference, scapegoating, abuse and division. Johnson will be laughing all the way to his next majority.

The hung parliament people have been pretty quiet about that particular scam. I mean, they're still employed by the national press for their insight and wisdom, but generally too busy entreating the left to be compromising and pragmatic to remember all the They're Both as Bad As Each Other Let's Vote Them All Out! fervour.

 

[Colin Barron]

There is quite a cross over between editorial & advertising in terms of how items are put together. The old creative rule of “tell them what your going to tell them, tell them & tell them again” is actually based upon a typical news bulletin.

Subliminal advertising is actually illegal but this is often confused with frequency of message which isn’t.

Spot on. The advantage in the digital era is you can obtain feedback quickly to refine your message to maximum effect, eg 'get Brexit done'.