But with an external DAC you need a digital Output (Coax, USB) which allows you to bypass the internal DAC and use the 222 as a Pre/Transport only.
New Naim streamer preamp
- Thread starter PerF
- Start date
I see what you mean. It won’t work if you want to use both the built in network renderer and the analogue preamp.
I suppose this product doesn’t make much sense for that usage case. You could run an external renderer>DAC>222 but then you are paying a lot of money for a streaming preamp and only using a fraction of its capability.
Sloop John B
And any old music will do…
Well, well, well, wrong again!
Having seen more photos today I think they look fine and I genuinely wish Naim well with them (even though I’m likely to deride some of the gushing that will undoubtedly be released with the usual xxx now sounds broken brigade out in full force). A few thoughts
- The 222 will be a nice option for attaching to, let’s call them, analogue actives such as ATC.
- NAP 250 is a bit iconic and it’s good to see it still around and made in Salisbury.
- It strikes me that, in old money, what we are looking at is a CDX2 scenario, fine on it’s own but bettered with a PS that’s necessary for the next level (CDS) so I’d expect the 333 to need an external power supply (although the terminology “system upgrade” on the back of the 300 might signal that I’m once again wide of the mark.
- The 3 boxes together at circa £17,000 probably equate to a CDX2/282/HC/250 so probably is no more expensive than Naim has become before this release.
- New Classic is a silly name.
- The myriad of cables to connect new classic to classic and the possible permutations and combinations are very complex.
- How do Naim expect to sell any 500 series now that they are (not so soon apparently) going to be “white logoed”. Presumably being a made to order item they are hoping the factory will be busy with these new items and the 333 that they won’t prioritise the (presumably) lesser sellers in the 500 amplification.
- With the cost of living crisis how will these sell? Perhaps they are just aimed at people who the cost of living crisis is not hitting appreciably anyway.
NAIM finds itself in a difficult place. It wants to be "traditional" company and please its "heritage" clients with traditional products but in-so-doing has created too complex of a product line. Now they are creating a second complex product line, trying to advance their products, and finds itself in the difficult place of trying to bridge Classic and New Classic, while navigating supply shortages, etc. Now we are talking about YET another set of cables designed to connect Classic and New Classic equipment, keep everyone happy, etc. To me, it sounds like biting off more than you can chew given the market size for MORE, BIGGER black boxes while the rest of the world simplifies. Hate to say it but the NAIM faithful are getting older, dying off.
If I had been NAIM, I would have taken the risk of a clean break. End production of all Classic models, simplify the product line, and roll out New Classic only from 1/1/2024 onwards.
What do I know? The new design language is "meh" for me and all of it costs too much. Products like the Supernait 3 and HiCapDR are approaching end-of-life. Going forward, maybe a Supernait 4 will be possible but I doubt I could afford anything else. But then I will have to buy yet another NPX 200 power supply to go with that?!? The market for used NAC 282 and NAP 250DR will be something I DO watch.
If I had to take a guess, I think by end of 2025, the NAIM lineup will look similar to this (although this is still too complex):
If I had been NAIM, I would have taken the risk of a clean break. End production of all Classic models, simplify the product line, and roll out New Classic only from 1/1/2024 onwards.
What do I know? The new design language is "meh" for me and all of it costs too much. Products like the Supernait 3 and HiCapDR are approaching end-of-life. Going forward, maybe a Supernait 4 will be possible but I doubt I could afford anything else. But then I will have to buy yet another NPX 200 power supply to go with that?!? The market for used NAC 282 and NAP 250DR will be something I DO watch.
If I had to take a guess, I think by end of 2025, the NAIM lineup will look similar to this (although this is still too complex):
- Lifestyle: Mu-so, Qb, Uniti
- New Classic Integrated: Supernait 4, Supernait Statement
- New Classic Pre/Streamer: NSC 222, NSC 333
- New Classic Pre: NAC 250, NAC 300
- New Classic Power Amp: NAP 250, NAP 300
- 500 Series: NSC 555, NAC 552, NAP 500
- Statement: S1, S2
- Power: NPX 200 (replacing HCDR), NPX 300, NPX 500
- Dedicated Streamer: NDX 200, NDX 500
- Other: Solstice Special Edition, CD 500 Special Edition
Don't forget cables that cost as much as an entry level Honda scooter.
sktn77a
pfm Member
https://community.naimaudio.com/t/the-naim-new-classic-range/27009
Specs-wise, looks good. Aesthetically........... BARF!!!
Specs-wise, looks good. Aesthetically........... BARF!!!
JWM
pfm Member
There was I thinking the ubiquitous ‘NA’ prefix was simply ‘Naim Audio’ as in NA…C Control, NA…P Power, NA…CD Compact Disc, S Separated, I Integrated, NA…DBL Decoupled Box Loudspeaker, etc.
Hungry Halibut
pfm Member
According to the Signals website, the NAC 282, NAC 252, NAP 250DR, Superline, XPS DR, HiCap DR and Supercap DR are all being killed off. That means that other than the 552, the 222 is the only separate preamp that Naim now make.
May I suggest some logical corrections (and some assumptions) on your list. My comments/changes in bold:
- New Classic Integrated: NAIT XS 5, Supernait 5, (No way they go for integrated at Statement level)
- New Classic Pre/Streamer: NSC 222, (NSC 332 I don't expect a combined streamer/pre at 300 level, but who knows)
- New Classic Pre: NAC 222(not sure about separates at 200 level, but who knows?), NAC 332 (the website link is there and waiting: https://www.naimaudio.com/product/nac-332)
- New Classic Power Amp: NAP 250, NAP 300
- 500 Series: (NCS 555 no way they combine streamer/pre at this level), NAC 552, NAP 500
- Statement: S1, (S2 wishful thinking
) - Power: NPX 200 (replacing HCDR) (could be, but I wouldn't expect it this year), NPX 300, NPX 500
- Dedicated Streamer: (NSS 222, hopefully at some point, but similar to NAC 222 I don't expect fully separates at 200 level this year) NSS 333 (the website link is there and waiting: https://www.naimaudio.com/product/nss-333), NSS 555
- Other: Solstice Special Edition, (CD 500 Special Edition CD is gone forever from Naim I would say)
Alex S
carbon based lifeform
I like the Honda reference. I buy Japanese cars. They are well made, reliable, don't break often, are relatively cheap to buy, run, service and maintain. I don't buy Jaguars because I can't afford to buy or run them but if I could, I guess the pride of ownership would be significant. I don't buy French cars.
Paul Hindle
Do you mock me?
I too like to rationalise product lines into a nice neat list like this unfortunately the reality will probably be a bunch of products that are selling well and a bunch of products that Naim are hoping will sell well. Basically a similar mishmash to what they have now. Good luck to them though. Speaking as an ex product manager of course
May I suggest some logical corrections (and some assumptions) on your list. My comments/changes in bold:
In summary, I expect that Naim wants to simplify and streamline the range, with full integration of functions at Uniti level, partial integration at 200-level and full separates at 300- and 500-level. Unfortunately that means that going up the ladder will be in big pricy steps... So thank you, but I will stick to my nDAC
- New Classic Integrated: NAIT XS 5, Supernait 5, (No way they go for integrated at Statement level)
- New Classic Pre/Streamer: NSC 222, (NSC 332 I don't expect a combined streamer/pre at 300 level, but who knows)
- New Classic Pre: NAC 222(not sure about separates at 200 level, but who knows?), NAC 332 (the website link is there and waiting: https://www.naimaudio.com/product/nac-332)
- New Classic Power Amp: NAP 250, NAP 300
- 500 Series: (NCS 555 no way they combine streamer/pre at this level), NAC 552, NAP 500
- Statement: S1, (S2 wishful thinking
- Power: NPX 200 (replacing HCDR) (could be, but I wouldn't expect it this year), NPX 300, NPX 500
- Dedicated Streamer: (NSS 222, hopefully at some point, but similar to NAC 222 I don't expect fully separates at 200 level this year) NSS 333 (the website link is there and waiting: https://www.naimaudio.com/product/nss-333), NSS 555
- Other: Solstice Special Edition, (CD 500 Special Edition CD is gone forever from Naim I would say)
I have come to a similar conclusion from what I can infer from the Naim thread where questions have been answered by Naim employees.
Like you I think they are thinking in terms of integration at lower levels. The 200 series being designed to provide a high level system with limited complexity and options - this is something that Naim consumers keep going on about (box count) and I'm sure the dealers want to be able to offer straightforward system plus speakers.
This would mean that there will be no 200 series streamer, but that full separates (ie pre plus streamer plus power supplies) will be offered as 300 series.
Comments on the Naim forum seem to suggest that there will now only be one power supply - the 300 - certainly its combination with the 200 series pre/streamer suggests there won't be one at 200 level.
Finally I am interested in what Naim's source strategy is. There is uncertainty about any follow on to the Solstice, but the integrated phono board in the 222 and the introduction of the new phono amp suggest an expectation of continuing demand for LP replay. Otherwise it appears that Naim's expectation is that the digital market will settle on streaming/downloads. If so, where does this leave the Core, or any upgraded version?
Mynamemynaim
40 yrs a Naim owner
I continue to wish Naim well
I'm left uninspired by the looks and functions of the new line-up...but that's hardly surprising as whatever they made new, would now be out of my price bracket by a long way
We have got used to electronics getting ever cheaper to produce and sell , and Naim asking £5700 for an aluminium box with a few (carefully chosen) components in it is a bridge too far for many
The strange choice to swop connectors to another fitting would not go down well with me either if I was still a "purchase new" customer
I'm left uninspired by the looks and functions of the new line-up...but that's hardly surprising as whatever they made new, would now be out of my price bracket by a long way
We have got used to electronics getting ever cheaper to produce and sell , and Naim asking £5700 for an aluminium box with a few (carefully chosen) components in it is a bridge too far for many
The strange choice to swop connectors to another fitting would not go down well with me either if I was still a "purchase new" customer
For me this certainly depends
I went from Peugeot to Seat, but don't feel I went from French to Spanish if you get my drift - this is brands not countries.
Many cars are made any place on this planet.
Seat is owned by VAG which is VW German, also Skoda which was east Europe somewhere.
Say a Toyota, a very reliable car, its Japanese but made somewhere in Europe, at least those who sell in europe.
Back to topic, Naim is British but ownership is French (correct me if I'm wrong)
Admittedly they are growing on me now, happy I can't afford them, not interested in streaming and have well over five amplifiers already.
Bob McC
Living the life of Riley
Wher
Where is the pride in owning a Jaguar, an Indian company?
From what is emerging, I think the 200 series looks like more one of convenience with the 300 level PSU made universal and thrown in to elevate SQ of the 200s - it’s neat, however £12-18k is a lot of premium for convenience and a slight reduction in box count over the current separates, which at a similar overall price (and less if p/x for the 222-250-300) I believe would still sound better? So it’s a very premium convenience package? I suppose the real advance in SQ is to be expected with the next 300 series announcements and interesting to see their prices?