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Naim Nait 50

Then why put it in and why defend such bollocks and it is by no means clear. It is confusing as always when it comes to Naim and cables. I mean it even states having cables of the same length. So how badly designed is this amp?
 
Muttley2 said:
Then why put it in and why defend such bollocks and it is by no means clear. It is confusing as always when it comes to Naim and cables. I mean it even states having cables of the same length. So how badly designed is this amp?
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It is more subtle than that. The Naim power amp design dates from long before all the audiophile bling-fi cables, and some of them are so spectacularly odd electrically they can cause instability in the output stage. IIRC the Naim manual used to specify a standard RS stranded copper cable and that was always considered fine even after A4 and A5 came along. Obviously hi-fi dealers like to sell things, so the Naim branded ones would be recommended/insisted upon to the point of public humiliation, but a bog-standard stranded copper cable such as the RS, QED 79 strand, lawnmower flex or whatever was never not perfectly ok. It was only the real fruitloop flat litz and other high inductance or high capacitance cables that were best avoided. That said I never knew anyone who actually blew a Naim amp up by using an oddball audiophile cable.
 
Having had Naim amps in the past I am aware of the electrical vagaries of the Naim design. I guess what I was trying to point out is if you are new to hifi or not up to speed on this it can be very confusing. I for one never used NAC A 5 and my amps lived on. It does beg the question why design in foibles of old in a new amp. Maybe that is the point of this retro amp design. Even the sheep on the other forum are unsure what to use.
 
Muttley2 said:
It does beg the question why design in foibles of old in a new amp.
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Why design-in protection against odd and non-standard cabling? Naim were always minimalist in design, the whole design ethos was to remove what they saw as unnecessary. You’d have a point if it only worked with really expensive cable, but any typical stranded copper cable right in the middle of the electrical bell-curve will be absolutely fine. The RS stuff, QED 79 strand, some 13 amp mains flex from B&Q is all absolutely fine. The stuff that can (apparently) cause problems are right off at one side of the map. I can’t remember if it is unusually high capacitance or inductance that causes an issue, but whichever it is a highly atypical scenario which would inevitably cost far more than the default recommendation. I’ve no issue with this one at all, but I do tend to favour remarkably sensible studio-grade copper cables (which would be absolutely fine with Naim).
 
Can someone with some knowledge of circuitry design explain to me why this new Nait which has the same amount of inputs as the original Nait have 10x the electrical components than the original? ..I'm always a fan of less is more but Naim can hardly fit another thing in this new box and on top of that their even using modern tiny surface mount bits which are like 8 times smaller. The amount of components/circuitry that the audio signal needs to pass thru -thus potentially have an effect on- in this new Nait is huge by comparison, makes the original layout look simply elegant and enduser friendly.


 
tpetsch said:
Can someone with some knowledge of circuitry design explain to me why this new Nait which has the same amount of inputs as the original Nait have 10x the electrical components than the original? ..I'm always a fan of less is more but Naim can hardly fit another thing in this new box and on top of that their even using modern tiny surface mount bits which are like 8 times smaller. The amount of components/circuitry that the audio signal needs to pass thru -thus potentially have an effect on- in this new Nait is huge by comparison, makes the original layout look simply elegant and enduser friendly.


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I can’t.

But I do remember a conversation with James Henriot of Whest where he stated that despite intuitive thinking less is NOT more in circuit design. Make of that what you will.
 
tpetsch said:
Can someone with some knowledge of circuitry design explain to me why this new Nait which has the same amount of inputs as the original Nait have 10x the electrical components than the original?
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No, but it is really interesting to contrast and compare. To my untrained eye they have at least kept things in the same location, e.g. phono stage is back left, PSU and output transistors centre, power amp back centre/right, preamp and control circuitry front. I can’t explain the extra complexity, other than the new amp apparently has some standby mode that requires an additional switch-mode psu, which I’ve not identified yet. It may well be under the plastic bit. There’s also a headphone amp which will involve some stuff somewhere, very likely the circuitry just behind the headphone socket.

I really like the simplicity/minimalism of the original, though the new one is very nicely constructed.
 
Woodface said:
It’s a completely different amp from what was produced 40 odd years ago. How is this so hard to grasp, it’s a homage.

Some people will buy it, some won’t. No different to any other product.
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Essentially exactly this.

My purchase is based on a love of the original aesthetic, and a desire to have a modern decent performing amp. The only thing I’ve seen to suggest where it sits in the Naim integrated line-up was a Munich YouTube video where the Naim rep seemed to suggest it was at Supernait 3 level or above, albeit with lower power.
 
I’ve just spent all day driving and I think I’ve come up with a good car analogy ;-)

The Golf GTI Mk1. A small, relatively affordable car which came embarrassingly close to the performance of the sports car establishment of the time but arguably more fun and a fraction of the price. Imagine if Volkswagen introduced a Golf MK1 replica today with a modern VW engine but limited it to 110bhp, with wind up windows and no climate control. Imagine if it was given a price tag of £80k.
 
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This is how I see the new NAIT:
Surface mount components has allowed them to put far more into the case than was previously there. The original design was the absolute minimal they could get away with. That it sounded so good must have been a revelation at the time.
Starting at the mains - I see their new SMPS for low power standby. A compact little power amp next to it, nothing will be much different there over the rest of their range.
A compact phono stage far away from the transformer as per the original. Some op-amps to sense the inputs so it can wake up from standby, no doubt. And then what looks like the standard Naim pre-amp layout of time-aligned filter (729 in old money), volume pot, then the miracle gain stage. I see a little headphone amp stage next to the volume pot, and separate power amp and pre-amp windings on the transformer. Not sure if there's DR power supply hiding under the input selector switches, but there's something else there.

To be honest, it's almost exactly as I would build it were I trying to convey the ethos of Naim in a shoebox, or trying to build my own version. I've thought about it.

PS. Whoever serviced that NAIT1 in the pic above missed something we were always supposed to do to them...
 
I’d really like Sugden to remake the original A21: with a wooden sleeve, phono stage, headphone amp, DAC, and tone controls. No doubt this would also be expensive but I’d be willing to trade in one of my kids.
 
Tony L said:
Why design-in protection against odd and non-standard cabling? Naim were always minimalist in design, the whole design ethos was to remove what they saw as unnecessary. You’d have a point if it only worked with really expensive cable, but any typical stranded copper cable right in the middle of the electrical bell-curve will be absolutely fine. The RS stuff, QED 79 strand, some 13 amp mains flex from B&Q is all absolutely fine. The stuff that can (apparently) cause problems are right off at one side of the map. I can’t remember if it is unusually high capacitance or inductance that causes an issue, but whichever it is a highly atypical scenario which would inevitably cost far more than the default recommendation. I’ve no issue with this one at all, but I do tend to favour remarkably sensible studio-grade copper cables (which would be absolutely fine with Naim).
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It's high capacitance that's purported to cause stability issues for Naim amps. That said, none of the other brands I've bought or used specify loudspeaker cabling requirements. My CB NAIT2 is absolutely fine with Mogami professional speaker cables.
 
Ellenor said:
Is there any reason why they couldn't remake the amp exactly as the original? Are there regulations now that prevent this? Looks like it would be very easy to do.
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Yes, 1/2W standby is required if you want to sell in the EU. The original components wouldn’t be exactly available either.
 
Allan Probin said:
I’ve just spent all day driving and I think I’ve come up with a good car analogy ;-)

The Golf GTI Mk1. A small, relatively affordable car which came embarrassingly close to the performance of the sports car establishment of the time but arguably more fun and a fraction of the price. Imagine if Volkswagen introduced a Golf MK1 replica today with a modern VW engine but limited it to 110bhp, with wind up windows and no climate control. Price £80k.
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Caterham 7. No doors, no windows, no stereo, heater optional, no power steering, only 2 seats, carpet optional, roof extra, £30k. Join the queue.
But yes, the Nait 50 is too much for too little.
 
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