MDAC first listen thread

[mannish boy]

The steps don't sound tiny in my system. I'm using a SAC KT88 Glowmaster power amp and some Revolver RW45 speakers. The front end is a Cyrus CDXTSE transport going into a Tact RCS2.0S set to it's unity gain level before the M-DAC. The Tact has steps of 0.1dB so it could be just what I'm used to... but I'm only able to use about 5 steps on the M-DAC (around -20 to -15).

I'm planning on making a switch box to take inputs from the M-DAC an my phono stage, maybe I could buy a 3 or 4 way switch and add some attenuation???

 

[Yanntoe]

Hi,
Had my MDAC hooked up for a couple of days now - more or less playing continuously.

I bought the MDAC, because of the great contributions from John on this forum coupled with my previous experience with a DaCapo - which was great.

I've used CD, Squeezebox Touch, and USB (PC, XP with foobar and Asio).

I have a couple of questions and a couple of observations.

Is there/should there be a hierarchy of sound quality from CD - SBT - PC - i.e in theory which should be the best source for the MDAC?
My CD is an Avondaled Arcam AAA5, the SBT has a Teddy Pardo power supply and the PC is a netbook. Files stored on HD are all FLAC.

Is there/should there be a noticeable difference in sound or presentation between Coax and Optical input?

So far I find the MDAC to be very detailed - loads of stuff I didn't know was on the recordings, with great separation between the instruments. Immense soundstage, tight bass and great transparency - vocals sound quite "different".

However, whilst all the "parts" are really good, the "whole" sounds very lean, almost clinical.

Which is a really disappointing/

I moved from my Avondale monoblocks to my Croft OTL 3 last night, and this certainly improves the richness of the presentation. My speakers are EPOS ES25's and EPOS ES14's - the later accentuating the lean nature of the sound.

So ...... I'll keep playing around and would welcome and advice - perhaps I have something set up incorrectly or am being too impatient. I hope so!

Cheers

Ian

 

[Space is the Place]

Ive got 10 hours on mine i dont find it lean (but i am running full range speakers) reminds me a bit of the TDA in its presentation, at the moment i'm missing my valve preamp!

 

[AndyU]

Is there/should there be a hierarchy of sound quality from CD - SBT - PC - i.e in theory which should be the best source for the MDAC?


Ian

If the sources are bit identical, which the MDAC allows you to prove, shouldn't they all sound the same?

 

[Interzone]

Been playing about with the bitperfect tests. Both are passed in itunes and with BitPerfect software but using audirvana plus (itunes integrated) the standard res file passes but the hi-rez doesn't; it doesn't fail either just hangs on 'awaiting trigger'. Anyone know why/what this means?

 

[Yanntoe]

Hi
Question to "Space in the Place" - why are you missing your valve preamp?

I always thought that EPOS ES 25's are full range speakers (they are the forerunners of the ES30's and are a littel bigger ES22) - have I missed something?
Actually, the Croft's in action as I write and it does sound pretty good - adds a bit of warmth.

Trouble is it's like a bloody oven in the lounge - I don't think I can live with an AGA in the kitchen AND a valve amp in the lounge - it's just too damn hot - bring on winter that's all I can say!!! (then I can spend more time in front of a hot valve amp rather than remodelling the garden.)

What fun .....

Cheers

Ian

 

[Plutox]

the standard res file passes but the hi-rez doesn't; it doesn't fail either just hangs on 'awaiting trigger'. Anyone know why/what this means?

Sorry if this sounds like a glib or sarcastic comment - it isn't supposed to be - but it implies that there is sufficient corruption to the data stream - for one reason or another - for the trigger not to be recognised.

I don't know how far into the data file the trigger occurs but, were I building the test file, I would put a second of digital silence on the front of it to allow time for the playback environment to stabilize. In my experience a lot of (otherwise) perfectly stable playback systems are dodgy for the first few tens of mS, especially if there is a change of sampling rate involved.

 

[Interzone]

Sorry if this sounds like a glib or sarcastic comment - it isn't supposed to be - but it implies that there is sufficient corruption to the data stream - for one reason or another - for the trigger not to be recognised.

Not at all, I figured that but I have no way of telling if the file is playing correctly as the output is muted whilst the test is on. If I play something other than the test file or a test file from a non-bitperfect source then the MDAC will immediately state 'test failed'.

 

[Plutox]

Now that a 'bit perfect' test is available on a piece of kit that will probably sell in big quantities, I wonder what this test will reveal about whacky* "audiophile" software such as JPlay, CPlay etc?

*the kind of software that completely compromises the functionality of the host computer in exchange for 'better' sound quality.

 

[Interzone]

Now that a 'bit perfect' test is available on a piece of kit that will probably sell in big quantities, I wonder what this test will reveal about whacky* "audiophile" software such as JPlay, CPlay etc?

*the kind of software that completely compromises the functionality of the host computer in exchange for 'better' sound quality.

Agreed. I only want to use something other than itunes for auto sample rate switching. Once they incorporate that I'll be happy to use it as standard.

 

[sq225917]

Mannish, sounds like you have way too much gain somewhere. Your amps have 26.5db gain, which isn't excessive and they need 1.2v to achieve max output. I'm just guessing that you Cyrus runs a little hot, over 2v peak, and that the mdac (which is 2v out) passes this straight on to your amps. I don't know how you have the mdac wired to your Glowmaster, but at I guess I imagine you use the balanced connections, and they will likely run even hotter, closer to 3v.

If you are using a balanced connection try just using a rca wired single ended phono instead, it could give you 50% of your volume control back.

In comparison, my power amps have 29db gain, need 1.2v for max output and my speakers are 91db and I can use all but the last few degrees of the volume pot.

 

[spxy]

Hi,

So far I find the MDAC to be very detailed - loads of stuff I didn't know was on the recordings, with great separation between the instruments. Immense soundstage, tight bass and great transparency - vocals sound quite "different".

However, whilst all the "parts" are really good, the "whole" sounds very lean, almost clinical.

Which is a really disappointing/

I moved from my Avondale monoblocks to my Croft OTL 3 last night, and this certainly improves the richness of the presentation. My speakers are EPOS ES25's and EPOS ES14's - the later accentuating the lean nature of the sound.

So ...... I'll keep playing around and would welcome and advice - perhaps I have something set up incorrectly or am being too impatient. I hope so!

Cheers

Ian

got the same problem here, had it running for 2 days now, still very lean and a bit cold. I've got 3x audiolab 8000p's and epos es22's

a shame as there is great detail and seperation, but just no body to the midrange and the treble is very dry.
It forces you to turn up the volume to find some body, but then its just too loud for my ordinary listening. I suspect if you regularly play things loud you may not find the same ...

 

[Space is the Place]

Hi
Question to "Space in the Place" - why are you missing your valve preamp?

Well the preamp and DM have beat of all comers so far! it's not perfect but seems to have a great synergy with the rest of the system for some reason.

Hi

I always thought that EPOS ES 25's are full range speakers...

Ian

Yes they certainly are, was thinking of the smaller ones... http://www.stereophile.com/content/epos-es25-loudspeaker-measurements.

Like i put in the first post the FR seems pretty balanced here, although bass did seem less prominent at the start, how many hours have you got on your Dac Ian?

 

[mark.king]

John a question for you.

The Krell Amplifier I have has a really good pre-amp but it also has Theatre mode where it can be bypassed and used as a power amp. I use this mode for my home cinema set up but am wondering if there would be an advantage to using the pre in the MDAC.

So the question is. If the MDAC is set to fixed output (which is how I have been running it due to the Krell being big and expensive ;-)) am I then using two pre-amps. The MDAC and Krell?

When The MDAC is in pre-mode is there a difference in SQ due to it taking on the roll of a pre-amp or does the MDAC sound exactly the same in pre as it does fixed output?

What I'm saying is should it sound better if I bypass the krell pre as then only one pre is being used? I am trying this by the way but not really concluded anything yet as go back and forth to change the volume between modes is a pain.

Cheers

 

[PhilCTTE]

John a question for you.

The Krell Amplifier I have has a really good pre-amp but it also has Theatre mode where it can be bypassed and used as a power amp. I use this mode for my home cinema set up but am wondering if there would be an advantage to using the pre in the MDAC.

So the question is. If the MDAC is set to fixed output (which is how I have been running it due to the Krell being big and expensive ;-)) am I then using two pre-amps. The MDAC and Krell?

When The MDAC is in pre-mode is there a difference in SQ due to it taking on the roll of a pre-amp or does the MDAC sound exactly the same in pre as it does fixed output?

What I'm saying is should it sound better if I bypass the krell pre as then only one pre is being used? I am trying this by the way but not really concluded anything yet as go back and forth to change the volume between modes is a pain.

Cheers

I'm running my MDAC via 7.1 analogue in on my Marantz AV7005 processor and asked John whether fixed or pre mode would alter the SQ from the MDAC and he stated that there would be no difference what so ever. He has stated that the MDAC as a pre is very good anything else in the chain to the power amp would cause a decrease in SQ. But in your system its the same beast and you are relient on how Krell is handling the signal.

Suck it and see


I much prefer setting my AV amp to a level and using the MDAC remote whilst listening. The remotes a nice and convenient size and can control all media players (so far) connected by USB on my computer.

If the remote was made from an alloy and was a bit more weighty it really would make it feel like a classy product.

Still re-discovering music and how it sounds so much better with the MDAC. I'm amazed at how much bass there is - listening to Leftfield at full tilt really is amazing punch and clarity.

 

[mark.king]

Cheers thats good to hear. I'm running using the MDAC as the pre at the moment and seeing if I notice any difference. Nothing I can put my finger on so the Krell can't have been colouring the sound much.

 

[Yanntoe]

Hi

Like i put in the first post the FR seems pretty balanced here, although bass did seem less prominent at the start, how many hours have you got on your Dac Ian?[/QUOTE]

The MDAC has been playing for around 50 hours now.

spxy - we do seem to have the same experience then. I've had the EPOS's since new and haven't found anything that has such a nice mid-range, the bass is usually a little excessive in my listening room and I suspect the tweeter isn't the most refined on the planet. I recently got some ES14's to see if they reduced the bass - unsurprisingly they do. Trouble is the sound through the ES14's using the MDAC is just too "thin" so their big prother's are back in play. Maybe the way forward is to try a valve pre-amp in the system. Something from Croft perhaps.

Anyone on here using this kind of set up? i.e. SBT - MDAC - Valve Pre - solid state amps? If so what's the verdict?

Cheers

Ian

 

[Space is the Place]

Anyone on here using this kind of set up? i.e. SBT - MDAC - Valve Pre - solid state amps? If so what's the verdict?

Cheers

Ian

Well im using a valve preamp a electronic crossover that goes to four monoblocks. I'm running the MDAC into the Valve preamp now and the character of the sound is mostly unchanged with the preamp in the loop.

 

[JohnW]

John a question for you.

The Krell Amplifier I have has a really good pre-amp but it also has Theatre mode where it can be bypassed and used as a power amp. I use this mode for my home cinema set up but am wondering if there would be an advantage to using the pre in the MDAC.

So the question is. If the MDAC is set to fixed output (which is how I have been running it due to the Krell being big and expensive ;-)) am I then using two pre-amps. The MDAC and Krell?

When The MDAC is in pre-mode is there a difference in SQ due to it taking on the roll of a pre-amp or does the MDAC sound exactly the same in pre as it does fixed output?

What I'm saying is should it sound better if I bypass the krell pre as then only one pre is being used? I am trying this by the way but not really concluded anything yet as go back and forth to change the volume between modes is a pain.

Cheers

Hi Mark,

The MDAC will sound exactly the same in DAC and DAC-Pre mode (the Circuit remains the same, just Gain control is performed in the Digital domain).

The advantage of using the MDAC in DAC-Pre mode is that you can remove an extra component in your signal path, the extra Pre-amplifier.

I'm not sure what "Home theatre bypass" does on the Krell it might just function as a "normal" but with its Volume Control (Gain) fixed to 0dB, the signal still goes though the preamplifier as before, but with fixed volume level - Or it could really be a "bypass" and the input signal is routed directly to the output, which would be great, as this would remove the Krell from the signal path.

I suspect the first option; the Krell's Volume level is just "Fixed".

I suggest just to remove the Krell temporally, and listen to the MDAC connected directly to your power amplifiers - then you can judge which options the best.

The HQ PSU with AV switch box will allow you to bypass the Krell.

I strongly recommend you try connecting the MDAC directly to your power amps (and remove the Krell from the signal path)!

John

 

[mannish boy]

Mannish, sounds like you have way too much gain somewhere. Your amps have 26.5db gain, which isn't excessive and they need 1.2v to achieve max output. I'm just guessing that you Cyrus runs a little hot, over 2v peak, and that the mdac (which is 2v out) passes this straight on to your amps. I don't know how you have the mdac wired to your Glowmaster, but at I guess I imagine you use the balanced connections, and they will likely run even hotter, closer to 3v.

If you are using a balanced connection try just using a rca wired single ended phono instead, it could give you 50% of your volume control back.

In comparison, my power amps have 29db gain, need 1.2v for max output and my speakers are 91db and I can use all but the last few degrees of the volume pot.

It may be the output from the Tact that's too high as I have noticed that the M-DAC's peak meter is constantly bouncing at the max level with some CDs...