MDAC first listen (part III)
- Thread starter John_73
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John_73
pfm Member
Fingers crossed the QC doesn't suffer if they're having to manufacture new units so fast :/
LittleToast
pfm Member
Near to the end of the 12 month warranty, my CDQ was brought in for the 4th time for repair. The first time is a fault of my own - I reset the unit incorrectly. The dealer was kind enough to let me do a one to one exchange o the 4th repair and I opted for the MDAC and a marantz bluray player.
I heard a short comparison of the MDAC and the standard 8200CD at the dealer and the MDAC sounded very different. But I wasn't sure how it compares to the upgraded CDQ which wasn't on demo.
So opting for the MDAC is really by blind faith as I could not compare the upgraded CDQ to the MDAC.
The MDAC arrived yesterday and it took me a while to install it - did an IEC socket for the power supply so I can fit standard power cords.
Even for the first few hours, it sounded very very good. Much better than my CDQ. It is amazing. It is such a good decision. The MDAC does not have analog inputs like the CDQ but then I don't have a single analog source. It also does not have a CD player like my CDQ but the bluray player (which can play dvd-audio as well as SACD which the CDQ can't) can output the audio to the mdac via the coax (192/24).
Which leads me to think of how difficult it is for the end user to compare products and choose wisely. And I believe equipment designers (like John and Dominik) will have this difficulty. John and Dominik made the 8200CD, progressed to the DQ and CDQ and then MDAC and all the time every new item is getting better and better. They know their products are good but I think not having heard other products extensively, it is hard to put a finger as to where they stand. What hifi 5 stars products are not all the same.
My decision to change to the MDAC was in part due to sq225917's comment on computer audiophile when he said MDAC is close to Weiss 202 and better than the Young DAC. I think he may have said it here too. Since I have read many of his posts in this forum, to me I feel that is the most integrious opinion that I can get anywhere.
For me now, the MDAC is great! I wasn't really contented with my CDQ (sorry to say that), but I am very happy with the MDAC. It sounds great.
I heard a short comparison of the MDAC and the standard 8200CD at the dealer and the MDAC sounded very different. But I wasn't sure how it compares to the upgraded CDQ which wasn't on demo.
So opting for the MDAC is really by blind faith as I could not compare the upgraded CDQ to the MDAC.
The MDAC arrived yesterday and it took me a while to install it - did an IEC socket for the power supply so I can fit standard power cords.
Even for the first few hours, it sounded very very good. Much better than my CDQ. It is amazing. It is such a good decision. The MDAC does not have analog inputs like the CDQ but then I don't have a single analog source. It also does not have a CD player like my CDQ but the bluray player (which can play dvd-audio as well as SACD which the CDQ can't) can output the audio to the mdac via the coax (192/24).
Which leads me to think of how difficult it is for the end user to compare products and choose wisely. And I believe equipment designers (like John and Dominik) will have this difficulty. John and Dominik made the 8200CD, progressed to the DQ and CDQ and then MDAC and all the time every new item is getting better and better. They know their products are good but I think not having heard other products extensively, it is hard to put a finger as to where they stand. What hifi 5 stars products are not all the same.
My decision to change to the MDAC was in part due to sq225917's comment on computer audiophile when he said MDAC is close to Weiss 202 and better than the Young DAC. I think he may have said it here too. Since I have read many of his posts in this forum, to me I feel that is the most integrious opinion that I can get anywhere.
For me now, the MDAC is great! I wasn't really contented with my CDQ (sorry to say that), but I am very happy with the MDAC. It sounds great.
adamlau
Um...What Is Going On?
Agreed. And thanks to him for answering some of my lingering questions as well
.LittleToast
pfm Member
liszt: Yes. Price in sgd remains the same.
CDQ sounds good but the sound to me isn't real enough. It isn't interesting to listen to - a bit dull if I might say, no matter which filter I use. Like it won't get me sit down for a long time. But the sound is likeable and neutral.
In the past when I listen I like to break down the sound into various aspects. Later I realized it does not quite work that way. It is like looking at beautiful face. As a whole somehow our senses tell us whether the face is beautiful, and breaking the face down may not really help. So to me how much I like listening to an equipment can tell me perhaps how good it really is. I realized as I have this t-jays earphone. I can tell very well that the sound is very right. I believe when we hear a good sound we can tell. The problem is that it is very hard to get components to sound right. And it takes very expensive equipment in the past. Right now the mdac (very affordable comparatively) with the Adams Compact 3 Actives sounds very good. I use all silver cables (I know this forum no body likes to talk about cables).
The MDAC is better than the CDQ - music sounds very real. And palpable. Natural. It just sounds right.
Try it. PM me and I can tell you which shop you can get the MDAC from where we stay - there is a preferred one in IMHO.
CDQ sounds good but the sound to me isn't real enough. It isn't interesting to listen to - a bit dull if I might say, no matter which filter I use. Like it won't get me sit down for a long time. But the sound is likeable and neutral.
In the past when I listen I like to break down the sound into various aspects. Later I realized it does not quite work that way. It is like looking at beautiful face. As a whole somehow our senses tell us whether the face is beautiful, and breaking the face down may not really help. So to me how much I like listening to an equipment can tell me perhaps how good it really is. I realized as I have this t-jays earphone. I can tell very well that the sound is very right. I believe when we hear a good sound we can tell. The problem is that it is very hard to get components to sound right. And it takes very expensive equipment in the past. Right now the mdac (very affordable comparatively) with the Adams Compact 3 Actives sounds very good. I use all silver cables (I know this forum no body likes to talk about cables).
The MDAC is better than the CDQ - music sounds very real. And palpable. Natural. It just sounds right.
Try it. PM me and I can tell you which shop you can get the MDAC from where we stay - there is a preferred one in IMHO.
Congrats on your MDAC. I'm so tempted to get another one for my hp setup so I don't have to shift ard the MDAC often. And it's MDAC that bring me back to speaker setup.
With MDAC, you'll have less problem with all silver setup. By the way I just build a set of duelund XLR cable, and man it's not the usual silver cable we used to talk about.
Mav
With MDAC, you'll have less problem with all silver setup. By the way I just build a set of duelund XLR cable, and man it's not the usual silver cable we used to talk about.
Mav
LittleToast
pfm Member
I am also using a pair of silver xlr. I have never heard of the duelund. PM me if you are keen for me to bring mine up to try. Or you can come over. PM me if keen ok?
Purité Audio
Trade: Purite Audio
Dueland make the best sounding caps around, we use their silver pio's in our amps I use their cables too.
Keith.
Keith.
PhilCTTE
Senior mumbler
I've got an itch to build me an audio server specifically for USB output to the MDAC.
Not sure on software yet JRiver or Logitech Media Server / Vortexbox... havent looked at details of what the difference is.
Build can be found here...
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Computer-Audiophile-Pocket-Server-CAPS-v20
Hopefully will find a cheaper case than the Origen. Will list component prices and sourcing of (UK) as and when.
http://www.logicsupply.co.uk/nf96fl-525/?___store=co_uk_en
If I scrimp on power supply and install 4gb ram at about £200 plus the Sotm usb £240. I have windows 7. SDD listed still searching for UK price or equivalent £80. plus bits and bobs about £550 rough guess.
**edit Maybe source basics all from logicsupply ...>
SolidLogic Atom T-3410 Mini-ITX System
Mainboard
1 x Jetway NC96FL-525 Dual Core Atom Mini-ITX Mainboard £ 80.82
Case
1 x Morex T-3410 Mini-ITX Case - Black £ 49.51
Memory
2 x Transcend DIMM DDR2 800 Memory 2 GB £ 39.52
HDD Mobile & Flash
1 x Intel 320 Series SATA SSD, 80 GB £ 107.22
AC Adapter (brick)
1 x AC Power Adapter 60W, 12V (PW-12V5A) - Included £ 0.00
Also not sure whether to incorporate the Sotm in line Noise filters as USB card will do much filtering.
But many of the top end builds seem to use one common component - the SOtm tx-USB pci card.
http://www.itemaudio.co.uk/sotm_usb.html
http://www.sotm.sonore.us/SOtM2.html#2
" The SOtM tX-USB is an audiophile PCI to USB audio card like no other. This audio card has a unique design incorporating a power line noise filter. It then has individual ultra low noise regulators to power the usb devices attached, the on board ultra low jitter clock and the on broad PCI host controller. You can also use the audio card's power connector (4 pin Molex) to supply it with your own linear or battery power supply for an additional boot in performance. The audio card also has a convenient switch to turn off the power on the USB cable all together. It simply does not get any better than this!
tX-USB FEATURES:
PCI USB interface chip set
Compliant with USB 2.0
All ports can handle high-speed (480 Mbps), full-speed (12 Mbps), and low-speed (1.5 Mbps)
32-bit 33 MHz host interface compliant with PCI specification revision 2.2
Supports 3.3 V PCI
Power input
Input voltage: +12.0 V (+0.5 V,-0.5V)
Input current: 2A max on / off
4pin IDE power connector
USB port power
Output voltage: +5.0 V (+0.5 V,-0.25V)
Output Current: 0.5A max
Over current protection: 1.0A at 20 ° C
Operating environment
Operating temperature: 0 ° C ~ 40 ° C
Storage temperature: -10 ° C ~ 50 ° C
Operating & storage humidity: 10% ~ 90%
OS support
Linux (kernel with high speed USB 2.0 support)
Windows 2000 SP4
Windows XP SP2
Windows Vista
Windows 7
OS-X v10.x"
*** Edit looks like they're also offering a music server for pre-order
http://www.sotm.sonore.us/SOtM2.html#2 . Tad expensive.
Not sure on software yet JRiver or Logitech Media Server / Vortexbox... havent looked at details of what the difference is.
Build can be found here...
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Computer-Audiophile-Pocket-Server-CAPS-v20
Hopefully will find a cheaper case than the Origen. Will list component prices and sourcing of (UK) as and when.
http://www.logicsupply.co.uk/nf96fl-525/?___store=co_uk_en
If I scrimp on power supply and install 4gb ram at about £200 plus the Sotm usb £240. I have windows 7. SDD listed still searching for UK price or equivalent £80. plus bits and bobs about £550 rough guess.
**edit Maybe source basics all from logicsupply ...>
SolidLogic Atom T-3410 Mini-ITX System
Mainboard
1 x Jetway NC96FL-525 Dual Core Atom Mini-ITX Mainboard £ 80.82
Case
1 x Morex T-3410 Mini-ITX Case - Black £ 49.51
Memory
2 x Transcend DIMM DDR2 800 Memory 2 GB £ 39.52
HDD Mobile & Flash
1 x Intel 320 Series SATA SSD, 80 GB £ 107.22
AC Adapter (brick)
1 x AC Power Adapter 60W, 12V (PW-12V5A) - Included £ 0.00
Also not sure whether to incorporate the Sotm in line Noise filters as USB card will do much filtering.
But many of the top end builds seem to use one common component - the SOtm tx-USB pci card.
http://www.itemaudio.co.uk/sotm_usb.html
http://www.sotm.sonore.us/SOtM2.html#2
" The SOtM tX-USB is an audiophile PCI to USB audio card like no other. This audio card has a unique design incorporating a power line noise filter. It then has individual ultra low noise regulators to power the usb devices attached, the on board ultra low jitter clock and the on broad PCI host controller. You can also use the audio card's power connector (4 pin Molex) to supply it with your own linear or battery power supply for an additional boot in performance. The audio card also has a convenient switch to turn off the power on the USB cable all together. It simply does not get any better than this!
tX-USB FEATURES:
PCI USB interface chip set
Compliant with USB 2.0
All ports can handle high-speed (480 Mbps), full-speed (12 Mbps), and low-speed (1.5 Mbps)
32-bit 33 MHz host interface compliant with PCI specification revision 2.2
Supports 3.3 V PCI
Power input
Input voltage: +12.0 V (+0.5 V,-0.5V)
Input current: 2A max on / off
4pin IDE power connector
USB port power
Output voltage: +5.0 V (+0.5 V,-0.25V)
Output Current: 0.5A max
Over current protection: 1.0A at 20 ° C
Operating environment
Operating temperature: 0 ° C ~ 40 ° C
Storage temperature: -10 ° C ~ 50 ° C
Operating & storage humidity: 10% ~ 90%
OS support
Linux (kernel with high speed USB 2.0 support)
Windows 2000 SP4
Windows XP SP2
Windows Vista
Windows 7
OS-X v10.x"
*** Edit looks like they're also offering a music server for pre-order
http://www.sotm.sonore.us/SOtM2.html#2 . Tad expensive.
I have been considering doing this one to matey, so would be very interested to see how you get on! I have been considering using an M2 Evo instead of spending the cost on a SOTm USB PCI Card... Not sure what would produce better results!
Also glad your doing it in the UK, because the CAP v2.0 schematic has a lot of US only items!
The pre-built servers look to dear in my opinion for what they are when they can be done by hand relatively easy!
Seb
Seb
PhilCTTE
Senior mumbler
Sebby / Sam ... yup expensive but there must be a reason why all the high end audio server manufacturers use them .
Might start out with bare bones Mini ITX system without Sotm board and then see if I can get hold of Item audio to dem with / without.
After all need to save my pennies for M-PAX as well . Best get back to work now and earn my bonus !I'm wondering if the SotM stuff makes a difference with the MDAC. With the async protocol, jitter seems unlikely to matter. A cheap isolator should remove some (all?) of the PC PSU electrical noise.
The fact that one can establish that the MDAC gets a bit perfect signal makes me wonder if the SotM stuff is the PC equivalent of fancy cables. It being included in some fancy audiophile PCs is not enough to prove that it makes a difference with the MDAC.
Some of what I've read on Audiophile PC is Hokus Pokus, outdated and sometimes downright wrong (I won't mention sources so as not to upset anybody who reads this).
Just curious...
The fact that one can establish that the MDAC gets a bit perfect signal makes me wonder if the SotM stuff is the PC equivalent of fancy cables. It being included in some fancy audiophile PCs is not enough to prove that it makes a difference with the MDAC.
Some of what I've read on Audiophile PC is Hokus Pokus, outdated and sometimes downright wrong (I won't mention sources so as not to upset anybody who reads this).
Just curious...
PhilCTTE
Senior mumbler
Yes I've heard John W mention this card, although is this one pricey as well ?
I'll build a bare bones server first and see if there is anyway itemaudio can supply the Sotm to try compare stock usb with isolator, prior to jumping in with both feet. Server build without sotm stuff will be approx £300 , which is what I'm using as a benchmark in comparison to my reasoning for keeping the SBT and having to purchase new NAS drives. I guess part funding can be achieved by selling the SBT .
As with a lot of the technical "bumph" and internet fodder who do you believe ? . As I do not have the expertise nor the information available to analyse what is better. So the only way is to try it out.
Purité Audio
Trade: Purite Audio
We have just received our new PC 'server', it has the SOTM USB card ,SSD, etc, using it with JRiver. and Jplay, m2Tech EVO or Weiss INt on FireWire, it definitely makes a better sound than my stock dell, running the same software.
Keith.
Keith.
Once the right bits are in the MDAC buffer (by whatever means), and assuming no electrical pollution, I fail to see how the sound coming out of the MDAC could be different.
I can understand that, in a non bit perfect situation (or when borderline) or when the DAC isn't able to buffer the information received from a source PC, a high quality/ low jitter soundcard could make a difference.
SSD could also have some audible benefits (one of them is being less noisy, in terms of audible noise and possibly electrical noise).
Now, I could be wrong...
I can understand that, in a non bit perfect situation (or when borderline) or when the DAC isn't able to buffer the information received from a source PC, a high quality/ low jitter soundcard could make a difference.
SSD could also have some audible benefits (one of them is being less noisy, in terms of audible noise and possibly electrical noise).
Now, I could be wrong...
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