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MDAC First Listen (part 00110010)

Discussion in 'audio' started by 44000khz, Aug 15, 2016.

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  1. Hawtin

    Hawtin pfm Member

    Bring on the cultists! The belief is strong with these ones...


    This is of course more like what I meant...
  2. ChrisPa

    ChrisPa pfm Member

    Can't see why not.
    - When the MDAC2 happens it will provide a lot of people with what they wanted/were going to have right back at the beginning - a top flight upgrade in an MDAC sized case
    - if it doesn't happen there's still a noticeable way to go before an FDAC appears

    So some people will be happy with an interim (or even, final for them) MDAC2. That's more people happy than everyone having nothing until some further time in the future. I'm happy to have both, one before the other.
  3. mattgbell

    mattgbell Help the elderly and unwell!

    Really? Are 'a lot of people' who've paid up for the FDAC development going to be happy with the extra expense of the MDAC2?

    It seems to me there's a lot more disquiet on this thread than there was a few months ago. Apologies if I've misjudged this. (John is well aware of my views, communicated by e-mail.)

    As I said, there may be a few people who just collect (Lakewest) DACs.
  4. ChrisPa

    ChrisPa pfm Member

    I'm a very interested bystander :)
    I've been following all this for far (years) longer than most on this thread.
    As time goes by so maybe my patience grows.

    From my time watching this we really are nearer the end of the tunnel. The interesting thing about tunnels is that the visible end seems to remain the same size, never getting bigger, until just before you emerge :D

    My hifi interests continue and have continued without the FDAC/MDAC2.
    This is a parallel route

    You've got to go and look for someone else if you want a cultist.

    (you can tell the wife's away and I've got a night off. This is my first (and probably last) night of PinkFish freedom for a year and a half or so. And I've got loads to do away from t'interweb, so probably silent again from tomorrow)
  5. ChrisPa

    ChrisPa pfm Member

    For some people it won't be an extra expense, it will be the only expense that they actually wanted and that they spend (the original concept for this crowdfunded project was effectively what the MDAC2 will be, and many joined on that basis)

    As you can see, there are differences of opinions. You may be right, you may not.

    You said "most", I said "a lot".
    It doesn't make either of us right ... or wrong

    I sell on stuff after I've enjoyed it - not collect it. I've enjoyed various DACs in my system, and speakers, and amps, and...

    (can't find the emoji for shrug)
  6. brab

    brab pfm Member

    How much will an mdac2 cost people like me who want to know it exists before paying for it?
  7. TimR

    TimR pfm Member

    Chris, it's a genuine shame you don't post here more often. Much sense spoken by you over the years.
  8. timow

    timow Well-Known Member

    It would be better if JohnW can put together
    1. What is included in the MDAC2 upgrade?
    2. What is not included in the MDAC2 upgrade? psu?
    3. What other things are required? psu?
    4. What is not working as before? front panel power button?
    5. What will MDAC2 upgrade cost? including development cost?

    When this information is available, Renata could send an email to those who have paid development payments and inquire what they like to do
    1. Wait for FDAC?
    2. Change already made payments to MDAC2 upgrade?
    3. Want to have both FDAC and MDAC2 upgrade?

    Instead of guessing what most or a lot of us want we will know it.
  9. jadidih101

    jadidih101 pfm Member

    JohnW, Yer aff yer heid! :D

    The way I see it John you are taking on way too much. More than any one person could and should take on.

    Currently, you are trying to design\test\re-design\produce\support many products at the same time i.e. Detox, MDAC2, SOCs for MDAC2,FDAClight, FDAC,VFET, and now mini Amps and God knows what else.

    All these are great and I look forward to supporting\purchasing these now and in future. But, and I mean this most respectfully, there is no way one person can do all this. Regardless of your talent and dedication, there are just not enough bloody hours in a day.

    It seems to me what is needed here are people who can take over the procurement\production side of the projects and leave you the time to finish off the designs\testing. I can hear you screaming from China 'easier said than done' but I really don't think you have a choice if you want to do all these, have a life, and keep your sanity :D

    I hope I have not offended you and I wish you a safe trip back home.
  10. sq225917

    sq225917 Bit of this, bit of that

    He's building blocks, from which he'll build multiple components, the shared nature makes it less of a task than it may seem. Have faith...
  11. ChrisPa

    ChrisPa pfm Member

    The current suggestions have been about the prices to those who have already/previously committed to financially supporting John's development.
    There hasn't been anything suggested so far for a "purchase" by someone not part of the development funding

    The answers to the first 5 questions are all dependent on knowing what the completed design is - and where all the components, and assembly, will be sourced from - and therefore what it costs. And the design hasn't been completed yet.

    So until the design is completed and components have been sourced, everything is a guess, albeit maybe an educated one.

    As you said, when this information is available then we will all know, and until then we won't. So we will have to wait for this information. It will come.
  12. jadidih101

    jadidih101 pfm Member

    You are quite right. The design process John is using should allow him to utilize 'building blocks'.

    My point is do we really want John spending months in China, haggling over the component prices with suppliers, watching over CNC machine operators, checking daily deliveries, and so on. Is that really the best use of John's talent and skills?

    Procurement\production really requires a different set of skills than Design. Dare I say it we may even need a Project Manager. :D
  13. timow

    timow Well-Known Member

    When I have said anything else? I was pointing to the target group for inquiry by email.

    After design is finish and component BoM is known, project (JohnW) need to know how many MDAC2 upgrades need to be manufactured to calculate cost including manufacturing cost. This has to be done before ordering components for manufacturing.

    Inaddition I would like to know what is included in MDAC2 upgrade, what is not, etc. (first five questions) before my decision.

    I should have wrote:
    Instead of guessing what most or a lot of us want, we will know it after inquiry.
  14. JohnW

    JohnW pfm member

    Main PCB with new rear panel, New internal PSU board and external PSU (I still need to find a solution for this).

    Everything will be included.

    Nothing else, just a donor MDAC, even a unit with Bad caps and duff crystal etc. is OK - only the front Panel PCB & Chassis is reused.

    You have to pull off the front panel button from the original PCB and fit to the new PCB - otherwise everything else works as before.

    GBP400 development fee (transferable from FDAC if wished) + PCB etc. "At cost"... Those who decide on the MDAC2 can later rejoin the FDAC at a 50% development fee.

    Once the design is ready for production, then we will be open to making the arrangements etc.
  15. JohnW

    JohnW pfm member

    This was always going to be the case - ultimately the responsibility falls upon me - I need to QC each of the first production runs... I cannot afford any stupid mistakes, no one else understands the designs as I do....

    I hope to combine Detox production with MDAC2 Pre-production to maximise the benefit of the trip to China...
  16. Rune

    Rune pfm Member

    The simple fact is that there is not much that can be done to make the process go faster.

    By following this project we have gotten a unique insight into What it takes to do the R&D and design of a complety new reference DAC and planning production also takes time and resources.
    This also explains why serious hifi products is not refreshed each year.

    To me it look like John knows what he is doing, so please no more pointless talk about project management etc.
  17. iansr

    iansr pfm Member

    Given that Jarek is directed by John, a project manager would be effectively managing one person, who happens to be the head of the project. Talk of a PM is a nonsense in practical terms in such circumstances.
  18. ChrisPa

    ChrisPa pfm Member

  19. moosemeat

    moosemeat pfm Member

    Besides which, this was all discussed quite some time ago; John made it clear then he didn't want a PM... so to what end this regurgitation of a topic which has already been concluded.

    It's apparent to me that the development of these products has been an organic process, with learnings from one product feeding into the next. As a consequence, what we will ultimately get will be significantly better than what was originally envisaged.
  20. Rjpcardoso

    Rjpcardoso pfm Member

    From my point of view and having enrolled for Detox, Fdac and Vfets, what would be really useful is to understand the next steps for each stream and what is JohnW vision on timelines as of today. It may slip and no one will judge but at least we can understand what we are working on and aiming for at the moment.

    JohnW I understand you may be reluctant in proving dates, but you shouldn't. See it as just sharing your vision as of today and that tomorrow it can change based on a several number of variables.

    Keep up the good work.
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