MDAC First Listen (part 00110010)

[iansr]

John
If the FDAC is as good as we anticipate then it's only competition will be something like this:
http://mola-mola.nl/index.php/dak

I suspect that's going to be 5k or more when the stand alone version appears and with less functionality than the FDAC. There's definitely a market for high price top notch DACs.

And if you can knock out great sounding fully balanced monoblocks for £500 a pair then you're going to be backed up with orders . . .

 

[Sibbers]

And if you can knock out great sounding fully balanced monoblocks for £500 a pair then you're going to be backed up with orders . . .

Agree totally, especially if they can deliver current!

Actually, that'd suit me just fine. Time to save

Ha, me too!

 

[adamdea]

Reading between the lines, John mentions 'other work' these days...

We appear to have moved from a position where he was working full-time exclusively on PFM projects which leads me to assume our projects will be fitted in 'as and when'. This implies further slippage.

I accept that John needs to pay bills - I only request transparency. Someone else has already said that expectation management is important. It is now.

p.s. I will be ecstatic if it is pointed out that I am imagining this. I am not preparing to be ecstatic any time soon.

I agree that it would be a great idea if we could establish some kind of timeline and try to stick to it. At the moment every time we get a timeline of sorts, it simply passes by unacknowledged until there is another announcement which implictly mentions something from which it can be inferred that things have moved back.

Oops, should have made that clear. FDAC.
Cheers

Well yes. Frankly I think that all talk of the F-dac is now almost as theoretical as the V-Fet.


The Mdac2 came along as an acknowledgment that the F-fac wasn't happening any time soon. Now it appears that the M-dac2 isn't happening any time soon (at least not this year). I found it quite attractive as a way of getting something out of the project and leaving the F-dac to happen when it actually happens.

We have plans for more mass market designs once the MDAC2 / FDAC & Detox are manufactured - with FDAClite, FDAC and Detox if there's demand will continue onto "Monthly" production slots (granted the FDAC will be a 5K DAC so very limited sales)....

We also have active plans for a "miniature" power amplifiers and other products to keep the line busy - there are a few off-spin designs from FDAC technology in the near term road map - with the FDAC / VFET's being the Reference designs.

Expect to see some very affordable CNC'ed designs in the near future after Detox & MDAC2

WRT to the power amplifiers, our recent experience with the PRIMARE has really pressed home how bad expensive power amplifiers can be - and if owners are to hear what we hear here in the lab within the MDAC2 price range then we need to be able to offer and affordable system - so matching Power Amps.

A part of this recent trip to China was how to offer an affordable Solid CNC'ed amplifier chassis and the recent development has made this practical ... So if plans pan out after VFET we plan a pair of truly balanced 100W Mini Mono Blocks for around GBP500 a pair.

I can say that a "mere" 4 CNC machines although game changing for us (and very much appreciated) is "peanuts" for my friend - such is the scale of wealth in China....

This is all great news. But it would be great if we could actually get the Mdac2 out, since this doesn't need a case. I have lost track whether it was going to be made by an army of helpers or whether the board will be user fitted.

Either way it would be very helpful to know exactly what now needs to be done to get an Mdac2 board into my Mdac case and working. ie
1. whether the design is complete
2. what needs to be done to get the production arranged
3. what needs to be done to get the thing actually produced.
4 what needs to be done to get the board into my box.

I hope this doesn't sound pushy, it's just that it would be really great to know how close we are now and along the way. I would be surprised if I was the only one who would like to know. I'm guessing most people are too well brought up to ask.

 

[Sibbers]

No, I agree. I am on board with the original principal of a statement DAC and the pursuit that John is after but the reluctance to acknowledge any of the questions about timelines is a concern.

I don't mind ball park figures or anything that tells me that an order of events is considered, but I really did beleive that the FDAC was still officially scheduled for xmas. This one I mean, not next one (or last one).

John?

 

[iHaveNoNaim]

I've just checked and my original payment was over 2 years ago.

At the time I was thinking of upgrading my MDAC to something else and thought that I would hold off for an upgraded version. I didn't expect such an elephantine gestation period nor the mutation to an all singing/dancing FDAC (which I was totally on-board with but now looks like a tiny speck on a very distant horizon) and then the reversion back to the original concept; still we have no firm delivery dates and if I'm brutally honest not entirely clear what the MDAC2 is any more...

Its a good job that interest rates are so low at the moment....

Out of interest and apologies if I missed an announcement in MDAC first listen part 101010101010101.... but are miniDSP still on board; I would really like to incorporate DIRAC into the DAC device

 

[Richard Kimber]

Expect to see some very affordable CNC'ed designs in the near future after Detox & MDAC2

Do you mean before FDAC is delivered?

- Richard

 

[JohnW]

Do you mean before FDAC is delivered?

- Richard

Not under the Lakewest brand until the FDAC is shipped - although depending upon Jareks and a 3rd party's engineers workload I'd like to see the MiniAmps ASAP....

 

[jansen]

This ist all too cryptic for me. I'm loosing the track

 

[Richard Kimber]

Not under the Lakewest brand until the FDAC is shipped - although depending upon Jareks and a 3rd party's engineers workload I'd like to see the MiniAmps ASAP....

But how will this affect the delivery date of the FDAC? You must, presumably, be in a position by now to give a firm date and cost for this.

- Richard.

 

[HarryB]

Keith.

Perhaps you should rename yourself Seagull Audio?
Come in, shit all over a thread and fly off again.

Have you every made anything other than a name for yourself?

Just saying...

Post of the day. Bless you and thanks.

 

[LarsS]

I agree that it would be a great idea if we could establish some kind of timeline and try to stick to it. At the moment every time we get a timeline of sorts, it simply passes by unacknowledged until there is another announcement which implictly mentions something from which it can be inferred that things have moved back.
Well yes. Frankly I think that all talk of the F-dac is now almost as theoretical as the V-Fet.


The Mdac2 came along as an acknowledgment that the F-fac wasn't happening any time soon. Now it appears that the M-dac2 isn't happening any time soon (at least not this year). I found it quite attractive as a way of getting something out of the project and leaving the F-dac to happen when it actually happens.

This is all great news. But it would be great if we could actually get the Mdac2 out, since this doesn't need a case. I have lost track whether it was going to be made by an army of helpers or whether the board will be user fitted.

Either way it would be very helpful to know exactly what now needs to be done to get an Mdac2 board into my Mdac case and working. ie
1. whether the design is complete
2. what needs to be done to get the production arranged
3. what needs to be done to get the thing actually produced.
4 what needs to be done to get the board into my box.

I hope this doesn't sound pushy, it's just that it would be really great to know how close we are now and along the way. I would be surprised if I was the only one who would like to know. I'm guessing most people are too well brought up to ask.

Adam,

With the future in the rear mirror - I'd say the only way to address your questions, which all are valid, with any credibility is to have a Project Manager onboard. Not me though, withdrawn offer long time ago ...

 

[ChrisPa]

But how will this affect the delivery date of the FDAC? You must, presumably, be in a position by now to give a firm date and cost for this.

- Richard.

Joking, surely?
What have you seen that makes you think there's a firm position

The FDAC doesn't yet have a final design. It's design is to a certain extent dependent on the design (results) of the mdac2 ... which doesn't yet have a final design. And which is also effectively the mule for the FDAC.

To all those of you who have disposed of equipment, the only things in life that you can be sure are available are those that you currently have in your hands, and even then it doesn't mean they won't be taken away from you

John was never going to return from the far east with a product or even a prototype in his hands. This was an exploratory visit in order to bring his ducks in a row for the next build process.

Que sera, sera as Doris Kappelhoff has sung.

The interesting journey continues.
Sit back; enjoy

 

[ChrisPa]

Adam,

With the future in the rear mirror - I'd say the only way to address your questions, which all are valid, with any credibility is to have a Project Manager onboard. Not me though, withdrawn offer long time ago ...

It's a bit of an academic point. This design project never was (and never is) going to have project manager in the sense that you mean. Commenting on it isn't going to change the situation.

And all things considered I'd rather have the designs that I think we'll end up with rather than those from a PM driven project that (maybe) we'd have had 12-18 months ago

 

[LarsS]

It's a bit of an academic point. This design project never was (and never is) going to have project manager in the sense that you mean. Commenting on it isn't going to change the situation.

And all things considered I'd rather have the designs that I think we'll end up with rather than those from a PM driven project that (maybe) we'd have had 12-18 months ago

Well, I'm a strong believer in that we all have different talents/skills/desires. A skilled PM will care for each and every talent needed to succeed with designgoals of which ever project.

 

[Sibbers]

It would be nice to get some expectations set tho, and from a person who is both experienced and accomplished in this regard I don't think it's unreasonable.

Anyone on the project will by now know that slippage has been the most significant experience with ambiguity about what's actually happening coming in at second place. Any journey that is described so often as nearly there can be wearing and feels like much longer when it's not true, so an order of events would be nice.

We all want the journey to be enjoyable, fruitful and beneficial for all involved else John would not have got the investment to follow his passion, but a little transparency would be appreciated. No reasonable person is going to be upset about more slippage if they feel they are involved in the experience rather than at arms length without acknowledgement.

We are all fans of John, so I speak (as do others, very much including LarsS from what I have seen) with kind intent.

 

[ChrisPa]

I agree that it would be a great idea if we could establish some kind of timeline and try to stick to it.

I see nothing that indicates this can happen. So I follow the design process on that basis

The Mdac2 came along as an acknowledgment that the F-fac wasn't happening any time soon. Now it appears that the M-dac2 isn't happening any time soon (at least not this year). I found it quite attractive as a way of getting something out of the project and leaving the F-dac to happen when it actually happens.

This will still be the case whenever it appears

Either way it would be very helpful to know exactly what now needs to be done to get an Mdac2 board into my Mdac case and working. ie
1. whether the design is complete

No

2. what needs to be done to get the production arranged

Line up the manufacturing. Line up the components
And... complete the design
And prototype the design

3. what needs to be done to get the thing actually produced.

all the above
And production protoypes

4 what needs to be done to get the board into my box.

Manufacture it

I hope this doesn't sound pushy, it's just that it would be really great to know how close we are now and along the way. I would be surprised if I was the only one who would like to know. I'm guessing most people are too well brought up to ask.

I'd be pleased to know, but I don't think I'll be able to get an answer, so I'm not asking

 

[LarsS]

... We are all fans of John, so I speak (as do others, very much including LarsS from what I have seen) with kind intent.

Thx Sibbers,

I'm a big friend/fan of John, realizing his incredible strengths as a designer and an utmost amiable person.

From personal experience I do think that a team with various complementary skills is the best way to achieve what ever goals there may be.

 

[JohnW]

But how will this affect the delivery date of the FDAC? You must, presumably, be in a position by now to give a firm date and cost for this.

- Richard.

The only answer I have at this time is that Detox and MDAC2 are the priority projects this side of Christmas - Detox for sure will be first, followed by MDAC2 into production.

Bare in mind the MDAC2 "At Cost" is around GBP200 - GBP250 (+Vat and shipping) its not such a expensive upgrade and will be based upon FDAC but without the frills... the intent is to keep people happier until we have completed the FDAC.

Ignoring the GBP / US$ collapse and where the GBP will be in 6 months is anyone's guess, I don't see any change in costings from those listed on the FDAC website.

 

[mattgbell]

[...] Bare in mind the MDAC2 "At Cost" is around GBP200 - GBP250 (+Vat and shipping) its not such a expensive upgrade and will be based upon FDAC but without the frills... the intent is to keep people happier until we have completed the FDAC. [...]

I can't see this working.

Surely most people who've signed up for the FDAC don't want an MDAC2. (Unless they just like collecting DACs ...) So the production of the MDAC2 is more likely to p*ss people off, as it's going to delay the FDAC.

 

[ChrisPa]

Well, I'm a strong believer in that we all have different talents/skills/desires. A skilled PM will care for each and every talent needed to succeed with designgoals of which ever project.

I fully understand and appreciate the sincerity of what you mean, and agree with you.

In this instance your problem would be getting your design team (effectively of 1 until very recently) to agree on your, or external, design goals - particularly if you want time to be one of those design goals. So you could fight/push/cajole/encourage... but I think the end result would be the same.

I think it's fair for those concerned about time to make their feelings and concerns known. But I don't think it will make any practical difference to the end results.

John,
my only request to you is that, with production in sight, not to distract yourself with non-design diversions at the moment - ie. equipment repairs (unless you find the occasional repair to offer light relief )

Most earlier distractions haven't surprised me - for example coming up to the first proper listening tests without a working listening environment and system was bound to lead to time spent in that direction, and the knock-on effects of tweaking and improving.