MDAC First Listen (part 00101111)

[Rune]

Is a SB Touch UI really necessary?

Sure it is nice to see the cover art on the display but I think most people is not sitting within arm length of the DAC while listening and will have the UI on a mobile phone, tablet or a laptop. So not really a need for full SB Touch display.

I have never used the touch screen on my SB Touch and you will have to run LMS on a server to get good search performance any way if you have a large music collection YMMV.

 

[adamdea]

Is a SB Touch UI really necessary?

Sure it is nice to see the cover art on the display but I think most people is not sitting within arm length of the DAC while listening and will have the UI on a mobile phone, tablet or a laptop. So not really a need for full SB Touch display.

I have never used the touch screen on my SB Touch and you will have to run LMS on a server to get good search performance any way if you have a large music collection YMMV.

It's obviously not necessary, since loads of people run squeezelite players without them, but equally it does have its uses. Adding a touch screen to a pi to create an SBT clone seems to be popular with max2play.

The major benefit I find is for simple on/off operations and to allow occasional users access without the bother of downloading and working out how to use ipeng.

 

[Rune]

It's obviously not necessary, since loads of people run squeezelite players without them, but equally it does have its uses. Adding a touch screen to a pi to create an SBT clone seems to be popular with max2play.

The major benefit I find is for simple on/off operations and to allow occasional users access without the bother of downloading and working out how to use ipeng.

There are even probably ever more that do not use a screen with their PI.

I never used the touch screen on my SB Touch it is much easier to use the IR remote.
But as I said before it is nice to have but not need to have. There are other functionality I would rather see before that.

That is only my personal opinion and if John prioritize SB Touch interface onscreen then that is what we will get.
I have no problem with that.

 

[EIffel]

I'm wondering how much additional work the touch screen features adds to getting the FDAC to display the status information from the 'Squeezebox mode'.

Seeing on the device which track is playing, how far into it one is, and some of the eye candy such as album cover, would be useful... adding the ability to display the menus and respond to navigation commands from the remote is probably a relatively simple step afterwards. From then on, I presume the touch interface shouldn't be that hard to add.

This being said, it's been a long time since I've worked on similar matters, and do concur that there are other features besides the 'SBT interface emulation' which would be at least equally valuable.

PS: I do use the touch screen feature on my SBT, and also control it with an IR remote. I do glance at its display from time to time (having to find a tablet, turn it on, etc. is much less convenient IMO. I still prefer the official SBT interface to iPeng and other touch screen alternatives).

 

[jirij]

That is only my personal opinion and if John prioritize SB Touch interface onscreen then that is what we will get.
I have no problem with that.

(To my knowledge) there has been no mention of SB Touch UI being on FDAC. I only mentioned that I misinterpreted "squeezelite" as being the UI, which is not the case.

 

[adamdea]

(To my knowledge) there has been no mention of SB Touch UI being on FDAC. I only mentioned that I misinterpreted "squeezelite" as being the UI, which is not the case.

Yes I noticed that, but it seemed like a good idea to me, if you are going to run squeezelite on a machine which actually has a super duper touch screen. There's another "lite"- Jivelite which produces the UI. I don't know whether it needs any hacking about to produce an output apart from setting the resolution. It may be that this can be done pretty much off the shelf.

 

[sam_cat]

JohnW - I may have to alter my order for 2x FDacs and only have 1 if possible. Would it be possible to use the funds paid for the second one against the first one?

Totally understand if not, but as ever 'life' has got in the way.

Many thanks,
Sam

 

[JohnW]

Hi guys
I have a problem with my mdac. I can't use the Optical inputs because the sound keeps "cutting" for a fraction of a second every now and then. The Display keeps toggeling between 24bit/48khz to 24bit/48001hz and 24bit/48000hz etc. I have tried different sources, and now I wonder if anybody else have had this problem?

cheers/Patrick

Patrick,

Very sorry I missed your post over the weekend.

Have you tried to set the Jitter Bandwidth (Or Jitter Rejection) option for the selected optical input in the MDAC's Menu to "High" or "Wide".

 

[JohnW]

JohnW - I may have to alter my order for 2x FDacs and only have 1 if possible. Would it be possible to use the funds paid for the second one against the first one?

Totally understand if not, but as ever 'life' has got in the way.

Many thanks,
Sam

Sam,

As we approach production I suspect we will have more requests for the FDAC - so we can transfer your second MDAC as we will be only manufacturing a fix number of units.

 

[JohnW]

That was my reason for the "overreaction" to squeezelite before I realized it's a UI-less process (which is completely fine and easy to implement). I assumed you'd be trying to fit a full fledged Squeezebox Touch UI onto the FDAC.

The problem is that we don't live in 8bit era anymore and altering things to one's image isn't that easy. To run another app like an audio analyser or any 3rd party application, you would need a way to switch between FDAC fullscreen UI (presumably simple, like MDAC) and anything else. This would probably need X11 server running (which you wouldn't need for Qt thanks to its own embedded display server) and some way to intercept a front panel button press to force the FDAC UI in the foreground.

Not impossible to do, but significantly more complex than just having a single fullscreen Qt app. Also a lot more error-prone.

There are ways to make it much safer (ie. starting X11 instance for each such app, confining any related processes within a cgroup, etc.), but one has to keep them in mind. I'll probably give it a shot, depending on what solution Jarek/Thomas choose.

The intention is to have Qt running continuously with applications such as “Music Player Daemon”, Roon & SqueezeLite running as background applications with communication to Qt via command protocols, basically we are not switching between applications - Qt is always running as the main program.

Qt is good at “Graphing” data, so FFT and the such will be performed in the DSP’s with data transferred to Qt for graphical display. Audio analysis will not be performed on the BBB hardware - the BBB has a relatively easy life although I suspect you might have some ideas to change this

Obviously, you can implement your own environment / UI, but we dont see any need for X11, this is a very "Simple" embedded device - its important not to loose sight that the BBB primary function is just to drive the Display / touch panel and associated UI, any extra "features" such as streaming while great are just considered "secondary" niceties until we have become more proficient with our development resources

FDAC primary function is as a Reference "DAC", then whatever time allows us to add as "Extra" functionality in the first software release. Thomas now has "hardware" to develop the FDAC software I can image he will try to include as many "extra" features as time allows before the final production / shipping date Even while the DAC's are being shipped on the water we can continue with the software development - with subsequent software updates via internet downloads

 

[fusion5]

I want this FDAC so badly

 

[efski]

I want this FDAC so badly

+1(!)

 

[JohnW]

Yes I noticed that, but it seemed like a good idea to me, if you are going to run squeezelite on a machine which actually has a super duper touch screen. There's another "lite"- Jivelite which produces the UI. I don't know whether it needs any hacking about to produce an output apart from setting the resolution. It may be that this can be done pretty much off the shelf.

I imagine a basic squeezelite UI - and I'm sure as time progress it will become more polished

 

[jirij]

The intention is to have Qt running all the time with applications such as “Music Player Daemon”, Roon & SqueezeLite as background applications with communication to Qt via command protocols, basically we are not switching between applications - Qt is always running as the main program.

That's basically what I said back then in the email and what makes the most sense from a stability point of view. On the other hand, given the direct drawing support in Qt5, you can actually run multiple fullscreen applications as the first started one serves as the "display server". And the sonic-visualizer I showed you runs on Qt5. ... Although it would probably have UI elements too small to use.

 

[ti33er]

+1(!)

Me too lol ...without it I can't tell if my nCore nc500 is really the amp I want to keep. Swapped with Ricardo's TAG McLaren 250MR (aka AUDIOLAB 8200MB) for a few days and have started enjoying my music again....not as 'dry' ...but still I want MORE!!!! 8-}

 

[ti33er]

Does anyone else here use Oppo BDP-105 (Sabre DAC) direct into Amplifiers? Not sure if that is a dry sounding Source as nothing to compare it against anymore!

 

[adamdea]

I imagine a basic squeezelite UI - and I'm sure as time progress it will become more polished

Sounds brilliant- it may be worth checking out whether someone jivelite working for the bbb

 

[JohnW]

Sounds brilliant- it may be worth checking out whether someone jivelite working for the bbb

Adam,

"Jivelite" appears to be an almost 100% copy of the SBT interface - we need to design something much lighter for the FDAC as we need to embed the SqueezeLite operation within the FDAC's UI as the FDAC's Touch Panel is the DAC's only user controls so we cannot switch between Jivelite & FDAC Interface menu... Unless we can 'swipe' between screens or so such...

 

[bathory]

No problem I know you have a lot on your table =) thats why I hoped someone else had the "fix". Indeed it worked, I thought I had tried everything. I only use spdif for the tv-sound and now it sure does sound a lot better =) thanks a bunch

cheers/patrick

 

[JohnW]

No problem I know you have a lot on your table =) thats why I hoped someone else had the "fix". Indeed it worked, I thought I had tried everything. I only use spdif for the tv-sound and now it sure does sound a lot better =) thanks a bunch

cheers/patrick

Patrick,

No problem - sorry for the delay! have my head buried in Detox related paperwork for production while also trying to get the FDAC UI demo ready for Munich.