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MDAC First Listen (part 00101111)

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Since even a medium sized opera in DSD256 format might take up, say, 32GB, I'm thinking of putting such recordings on individual USB sticks. I think I'm right that the FDAC will not have a USB socket on the front, and so I would have to have an extension lead trailing across the front - not aesthetically brilliant, but a practical solution. Would this involve any loss of sound quality?

- Richard.
 
Richard Kimber said:
Since even a medium sized opera in DSD256 format might take up, say, 32GB, I'm thinking of putting such recordings on individual USB sticks. I think I'm right that the FDAC will not have a USB socket on the front, and so I would have to have an extension lead trailing across the front - not aesthetically brilliant, but a practical solution. Would this involve any loss of sound quality?

- Richard.
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Richard,

No Loss in SQ :)
 
Welcome to the Czech Rep - The Wild East of Europe!

This guy is a Police Driving instructor....!
 
Great news today - Thomas has the FDAC's capacitive Touch screen working :)

So a big thank you to Jarek and Thomas as the pieces are coming together.

While its common to have HiRes LCD and Touch screens on mobile phones etc. I cannot think of a "small scale" Audio product that does - the FDAC will be stunning design and its great to see all the elements coming together now after so much investment in development time and not to mention funds :)

After all this effort I hope we make more then 200 pcs :)

Tomorrow, Thomas will start on the FDAC UI :)

I'm still working on the Detox PCB update for production :(
 
JohnW said:
Great news today - Thomas has the FDAC's capacitive Touch screen working :)

So a big thank you to Jarek and Thomas as the pieces are coming together.

...

After all this effort I hope we make more then 200 pcs :)
(
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I am pleased that your new employee support you so well.

Wasn't it you who said that a well known company will continue to produce the FDAC design after the PFM rollout?

regards
F.s.
 
fred sonnen said:
Wasn't it you who said that a well known company will continue to produce the FDAC design after the PFM rollout?
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Fred,

The problem with the FDAC that if sold with the standard industry mark up of say x10 BOM cost on highend units above say GBP2K its becomes too expensive (Morally wrong) - I'm not interested in selling GBP5K DAC's.

The expected industry margins though normal sales channels in my working experience are typically:-

Upto ~ GBP250 x5 BOM

GBP250 to GBP1500 x6 BOM

GBP1500 and over x10 BOM

(BOM = Bill Of Materials)

The FDAC is an expensive design made financially possible for most as its "sold at cost".

The MDAC was an expensive design for GBP600, it was sold at a lower margin hence Audiolab releasing the QDAC that was a cheaper design but with higher sales margins but also lacked many of the MDAC's prime design features.
 
fusion5 said:
Nice work on the display, John!
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Thanks Michael :)

Having the graphical display with capacitive touch panel allows total flexibility via software updates in the future, and as time allows we will build up on the DSP / FPGA Firmware and other software features :)

I'm very glad (and a big thanks) to having the developmental resources of Thomas and Jarek on-board the FDAC project as only in my dreams could I consider having the time to develop these features :)

Thesedays, everyone's used to having a nice UI and touch screens on Mobile phones and Tablets etc. so perhaps don't appreciate the complexity involved but its certainly not the norm in HiFi - especially for such a small scale project :)
 
Yes, It's great that you finally got some additional manpower. Please pass my compliments to them!
 
JohnW said:
Fred,

The problem with the FDAC that if sold with the standard industry mark up of say x10 BOM cost on highend units above say GBP2K its becomes too expensive (Morally wrong) - I'm not interested in selling GBP5K DAC's.

The expected industry margins though normal sales channels in my working experience are typically:-

Upto ~ GBP250 x5 BOM

GBP250 to GBP1500 x6 BOM

GBP1500 and over x10 BOM

(BOM = Bill Of Materials)

The FDAC is an expensive design made financially possible for most as its "sold at cost".

The MDAC was an expensive design for GBP600, it was sold at a lower margin hence Audiolab releasing the QDAC that was a cheaper design but with higher sales margins but also lacked many of the MDAC's prime design features.
Click to expand...



So upset the market, get things in place and sell it at a sensible profit margin without being greedy.. You will sell LOTS of them, which will enable you to do more interesting things with it/with future developments.
 
sam_cat said:
So upset the market, get things in place and sell it at a sensible profit margin without being greedy.. You will sell LOTS of them, which will enable you to do more interesting things with it/with future developments.
Click to expand...

I think the costs of setting up a production run would likely to be prohibitive for an individual. This project has only worked because the development/production costs have been paid up front.
 
BrianPK said:
Unfortunately I had the very opposite experience at Christmas. I decided to treat myself to a little present and ordered 4 metres of balanced cable for approx 100 quid for my Sennheiser HD650's from a company who deliver made to order world wide.
When it arrived,even after running it in for 100 hours,the treble sounded screechy to the point of distortion.Afer I contacted the company they asked me to send it back for testing but could find nothing wrong with it.They were decent enough to offer a refund which I gladly accepted.
I now continue to enjoy wonderful sound from my gorgeous Sennheiser's for late night listening connected with the original cable to my MDAC via the single ended connector.Most of my listening is,however, during the day with my MDAC connected directly to my TagMcLaren 250x2R monos via XLRs and likewise sound fabulous.So I just don't know why the balanced headphone cable was so awful. . . just unlucky for once I suppose.
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If it’s any consolation, I had a similar experience a while back.

I put a 4-way XLR plug/socket into the line of my AKG700s, and made up a 4-way to L+R 3-way XLR adaptor cable, so that I could swap back and forth between balanced and unbalanced o/p. I don’t use headphones much, and the main reason was to try to see how much improvement I might expect from going to balanced amps for my speakers. The disappointing result was that like you, I found balanced to be much worse. The sound just did not hang together. I did of course check my connections in the adaptor, but could not find anything wrong, (though this doesn’t necessarily mean that there was really nothing wrong) so I assumed this was some problem about matching MDAC o/p to the phones, and forgot about it until I did my experiments with LPS powering of the MDAC, which greatly improved the single-ended headphone o/p. Misterdog, not knowing about the above, suggested that balanced would be even better.

I was of course doubtful, but after a while I thought I should try it, and yes balanced is better with the LPS than it was before; it’s now listenable, but not up to the sound with the single-ended connection. I don’t know where this leaves us, but the fact that you were working with a commercial cable does at least give me a bit more confidence in my own wiring.
 
Bob L said:
If it’s any consolation, I had a similar experience a while back.

I put a 4-way XLR plug/socket into the line of my AKG700s, and made up a 4-way to L+R 3-way XLR adaptor cable, so that I could swap back and forth between balanced and unbalanced o/p. I don’t use headphones much, and the main reason was to try to see how much improvement I might expect from going to balanced amps for my speakers. The disappointing result was that like you, I found balanced to be much worse. The sound just did not hang together. I did of course check my connections in the adaptor, but could not find anything wrong, (though this doesn’t necessarily mean that there was really nothing wrong) so I assumed this was some problem about matching MDAC o/p to the phones, and forgot about it until I did my experiments with LPS powering of the MDAC, which greatly improved the single-ended headphone o/p. Misterdog, not knowing about the above, suggested that balanced would be even better.

I was of course doubtful, but after a while I thought I should try it, and yes balanced is better with the LPS than it was before; it’s now listenable, but not up to the sound with the single-ended connection. I don’t know where this leaves us, but the fact that you were working with a commercial cable does at least give me a bit more confidence in my own wiring.
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Bob,

If you have the Cable I can confirm if its wired correctly. I searched fro your headphones but could not find any technical Data.

The FDAC had a very different output stage design to the MDAC so not to judge these results - the FDAC's is more of a power stage.

Its also possible that your headphones sound better with less damping (the MDAC has a current sensed output stage).
 
adamdea said:
Apologies if I have rasied this before (can't remember) but here is an old post from a benchmark engineer explaining why benchmark didn't think there is any point in balanced headphone connections (and indeed why he thinks they are worse than single ended.)
https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php?PH...6hhmf2e3oq0s4&topic=53801.msg486041#msg486041
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I dont agree with a few of his points - (Slew rate, Damping factor, Shared Ground conductor at the Jack) but what matters is the resultant sound quality.
 
sam_cat said:
So upset the market, get things in place and sell it at a sensible profit margin without being greedy.. You will sell LOTS of them, which will enable you to do more interesting things with it/with future developments.
Click to expand...

Production takes a lot of management and time - many headaches... OK for a 'one-time' small batch but not something I want to consider long term. I'm a designer and asides from custom "reference designs" such as the VFET amps I dont want to be involved in small scale "production". The VFET's will be basically hand built which is OK for such a unique and limited design.

As summer approaches the FDAC development will be transitioning into the production phase, I'm now thinking about the "future" beyond the PFM units. I have a host of meeting arranged at Munich to consider the FDAC's future... however due to the FDAC's build cost, sales though conventional retail channels is out...
 
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