Suppliers of parts, PCB, casing, etc and their quality control
MDAC First Listen (part 00101011)
- Thread starter JohnW
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Suppliers of parts, PCB, casing, etc and their quality control
I thought that the Detox served that purpose.
And I thought we ended up in close to consensus on not supporting a commercial Lite version prior the FWC FDAC.
I do understand that John in the designing, testing and QA process needs to do it stepwise and I have no opinions whatsoever on that process.
I guess many of us, including myself, already have "Lite" DAC's awaiting the FWC FDAC.
I'm guessing FDAC will be a bit more complicated adding PSU, display, ESS and various other IC's, analogue PCB etc which will all be critical to final performance.
From my experience extensive quality control and testing lead to shorter and more reliable projects. I've seen extremely large IT telecom projects fail because the customer insisted on skipping testphases and demanding impossible go-live dates
Having said all that, I'm pretty sure John will do the right thing; consensus or not.
I'm ok either way
Cheers,
Johan
Yes they are piling up. Last year I got a Chord Hugo and I have just received a Aries Mini which DAC is not better than the Hugo, but is a streamer.
As I said in previous message also toy & fusion users can now sell their modified MDACs because there are no more upgrade path available to these modified MDACs. I know what salvaged unit owners paid and it may sound harsh but the deal was between JohnW and those who bought the salvaged unit. It doesn't mean that this cost should be spread to everyone else like this and whatever way or name this cost is covered doesn't change that. Instead JohnW could have added Voluntare donation payment link for salvaged MDACs to Lakewest website for those who think this is fair/justified and want to donate.
For toy & fusion users development cost credit you should go back to the old MDAC threads. If I remember right it was targeted to upgrade their modified MDACs to same level to MDAC2 because there was some variation between modified MDACs and it took a week to JohnW to upgrade a single MDAC. As said earlier there is no more upgrade path available to these modified MDACs.
I agreed with the target goal but this is more a principle question and related to method to cover the cost of wrong decision and what At Cost is meaning which seems to vary from person to person.
If you put it that way it sounds reasonable but I have already answered to Rune what I think how this was handled.
One thing what I would like say is that I hope you think twice before you continue with FDAC Lite because it looks too much MDAC2 L1 which was already dropped because you feel that it will not be good enough and it will cause too much support problems in the future. It start to look more and more that we will celebrate project 3rd year birthday next year at the this time.
PS. I really hope that you would have taken an alternative path when you started to make compromises to analog pcb last year at this time.
In the end wrong decisions also add to the cost of the project.
And I have seen very few projects that did not in hindsight have a few wrong decisions.
Hi John
Sorry, I haven't been keeping an eye on the progress of the project for a while.
Do I have the option of withdrawing support and getting a refund for my installments made so far? I've just seen that none of the parts from my MDAC, which I paid £500 for solely to use as a donor unit, are going to be usable. The project has suddenly become nearly £300 more expensive for me and that has probably financially tipped me over the edge.
I don't definitely want to duck out yet but it would be good to know that the option is available.
Cheers
pix
Sorry, I haven't been keeping an eye on the progress of the project for a while.
Do I have the option of withdrawing support and getting a refund for my installments made so far? I've just seen that none of the parts from my MDAC, which I paid £500 for solely to use as a donor unit, are going to be usable. The project has suddenly become nearly £300 more expensive for me and that has probably financially tipped me over the edge.
I don't definitely want to duck out yet but it would be good to know that the option is available.
Cheers
pix
fusion5
on the dark side of hifi...
Where did you get this impression from in the first place? Did you consider that maybe chassis, psu and display+pcb really do cost about £280?
JohnW
pfm member
Pix,
I can replace the capacitor in your donor unit, add a few decent audio tweaks and I would have thought this can the be easily sold for the cost difference of the FWC (GBP280) - lets face it an MDAC with New Capacitors, Audio Tweaks + checked over by me with a year return to base warranty has to be worth GBP280?
You could also wait for the FDAC Lite which appears we will now be releasing very shortly after the FDAC FWC reaches production (it will have already been developed as an internal engineering step for the FWC FDAC), this has 80% to 90% of the FWC FDAC's audio performance (its has the FDAC's Advanced MOSFET analogue stage + Dual ESS's).
The FDAC Lite has all of the MDAC's features but with:-
1. Dual ESS 9018
2. Unique High current truly symmetrical & balanced ClassA analogue output stage
3. Analogue Domain 20dB attenuator (to reduce the level of Digital attenuation required in Digital Pre-amplifier Mode)
3. DSD64, 128 and 256 support
4. DXD (PCM upto 384KHz)
5. Balanced AV Bypass
6. Balanced Headphone output
7. Solid CNC machined Chassis with internally isolated sections (As the Detox design).
8. Lower cost then the entry Level FWC FDAC.
The two "important" features that it lacks over the FWC FDAC is the Advanced Clock section & FPGA that bypasses the ESS's internal digital section - IMO the other FWC FDAC features are just "Nice extras".
The FDAC Lite shares the identical Dual ESS circuit design of the FDAC FWC that's already a big leap over the MDAC - with the addition of a "beautifully elegant"
Discrete MOSFET ClassA analogue stage, Isolated USB 2.0 and high quality internal PSU.As for realistic timescales - please consider that it will already have been developed as a final internal engineering step for the FWC FDAC (we will be using to audition the FWC FDAC's "basic" audio performance (without the advantages of the FPGA), Vishay Resistor optimisation and used in the production line test jigs to provide the "digital front end" for the Analogue boards) - so its only a matter of putting into production once FDAC FWC is making its way down the production line.
Very good news
Thanks for this
Hope it will happen (seeing as it has been on and off already.....
)Cheers,
Johan
JohnW
pfm member
Very good news
Thanks for this
Hope it will happen (seeing as it has been on and off already.....
Cheers,
Johan
It will happen - as it will have been developed, well tested and form the basis of the FDAC FWC audio optimisation (which also applies to itself).
If it where not for the negative reaction here I would have asked Dominik to arrange production of it after Christmas when I believe the design will be completed (after the FDAC FWC Analogue board prototype has been issued).
I can see it running almost in parallel with the FDAC FWC (it will start production later, but being simpler it might overtake the FWC) - in fact I'm sure I'll be handling both DAC projects when I'm in China for the Detox then FWC FDAC production early next year.
Been back and forth with the Detox Mechanical designer daily since I issued the PCB files last week - so I'm expecting the first Detox Chassis quotes within a couple of weeks - this has an impact on the practicalities (cost) of the FDAC Lite when it does finally make production.
By the weekend I should be able to post the finalized Detox Chassis - it looks really good (Gosh, just wonder how much it will finally cost!!!!) that's why I'm keen for a similar CNC chassis concept for the FDAC Lite.
I'm using some of these elements for internal screening / isolation of the FDAC FWC although it will not be so cleverly "integral" to the FWC chassis design on cost grounds...
JohnW
pfm member
Wow forget the difficulties of the FDAC design - this IS great:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pillaOxGCo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pillaOxGCo
Cottage industry at its best
JohnW
pfm member
The Detox is powered by an external linear DC adaptor - when I'm next in China for Detox and FDAC Analogue PCB production I'll meet with vendors to purchase an "Off the Shelf" safety certified design for EU, US & UK variants.
I might be able to find suitable PSU closer to home... Maybe for the limited US numbers I'll just order a few from the Farnell / RS / Digikey catalogue.
I first want to test the design to confirm the exact input voltage required - it will be either 9V or 12V - hopefully 9Vdc will be significant to reduce the thermal dissipation on Detox's the first stage input regulator.
I might be able to find suitable PSU closer to home... Maybe for the limited US numbers I'll just order a few from the Farnell / RS / Digikey catalogue.
I first want to test the design to confirm the exact input voltage required - it will be either 9V or 12V - hopefully 9Vdc will be significant to reduce the thermal dissipation on Detox's the first stage input regulator.
JohnW
pfm member
Yes my thoughts exactly - says John in his tiny lab in the Czech Rep!
Yes it is possible but I doubt that when it's manufactured in china.
I don't think this is a discussion which we should continue.
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