If the primary purpose is to add streaming, then it would be a "nice to have" rather than a "must have" for me. The SBT is already doing a great job, and although it would be good to reduce the box count, there's also the fact that I would be losing the display.
MDAC First Listen (part 00100000)
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If the primary purpose is to add streaming, then it would be a "nice to have" rather than a "must have" for me. The SBT is already doing a great job, and although it would be good to reduce the box count, there's also the fact that I would be losing the display.
Richard Kimber
pfm Member
Forgive the ignorant question - I know nothing about DSD - but would we be able to stream DSD files in this way?
- Richard.
JemHayward
pfm Member
The Linux world does seem a bit anarchic when compared to the Windows or Apple world, but there is a lot of expertise out there, and its freely shared. I've had some really good experiences with Linux "geeks" who will put huge amounts of effort into solving problems for you, just for the fun of being helpful. The RPi being cheap, has opened up this world to a huge new market and there are lots of things going on. Picore player will make the board work like a Squeezebox and Volumio will do UPnP/DNLA so its got everything covered.
Not really interested in L5.
Why take on this huge potentially effort ?
I built myself a ITX compter for 150 Euro, threw in a 2.5" harddisk I'd lying around
2GB, Celeron G1620, HDMI output (it's also my video player) and hardwired network connection to my NAS.
It consumes about 15W idle or playing music. <1W in sleep mode.
Put it in a cabinet, out of sight.
Use either an iPad with Apple Remote to wake it up from sleep mode, or with just a WOL program from my laptop. Or if I really have to, open the cabinet door and press the power button.
Running Foobar music player, with FooTouch Remote plugin, and remote operation from an iPad (Apple Remote) or an Android phone (Retune).
I play CD's, 48k/24, 88k/24 96k/24, 192k/24 (Downsampled automatically by Foobar for now) and SACD (DSF files).
Sound to me like a cheap and solid solution, and as a bonus I get to play 1080p movies to my telly as well, and when the MDAC is switched on, the movie sounds play thru the MDAC and HDMI gets muted.
Why take on this huge potentially effort ?
I built myself a ITX compter for 150 Euro, threw in a 2.5" harddisk I'd lying around
2GB, Celeron G1620, HDMI output (it's also my video player) and hardwired network connection to my NAS.
It consumes about 15W idle or playing music. <1W in sleep mode.
Put it in a cabinet, out of sight.
Use either an iPad with Apple Remote to wake it up from sleep mode, or with just a WOL program from my laptop. Or if I really have to, open the cabinet door and press the power button.
Running Foobar music player, with FooTouch Remote plugin, and remote operation from an iPad (Apple Remote) or an Android phone (Retune).
I play CD's, 48k/24, 88k/24 96k/24, 192k/24 (Downsampled automatically by Foobar for now) and SACD (DSF files).
Sound to me like a cheap and solid solution, and as a bonus I get to play 1080p movies to my telly as well, and when the MDAC is switched on, the movie sounds play thru the MDAC and HDMI gets muted.
sam_cat
C'est Crounchifique!
adamdea
You are not a sound quality evaluation device
I've never done it myself, but i understand that the latest verison of LMS is able to stream dsd as pcm. I understad that this definitely works with DSD 64 (which is disguised as 24/192 pcm), so assuming that the embedded micro runs the relevant pi software it should be able to play that.
I'm not sure whether it can be done with DSD 128 or above though. I think this has to be disguised as 24/354 or 384 or more. I have a feeling it can but can;t remember seeing it for sure.
Julf
Facts are our friends
Mainly because it is geared towards the programmer rather than the end user. For a programmer, a powerful command line interface with the right tools is way more productive than a hand-holding-as-long-as-you-do-what-we-expect-you-to-do graphical interface.
The case with other boards is basically like a new PC without an OS. This allows you to install an OS of your choice (winxp, win7, win8.1, bsd, linux, ..) as well as all the applications you want (firefox vs chrome vs opera vs ..., microsoft office vs openoffice vs libreoffice vs ibm lotus vs ..., etc.). The upside is that you get to choose exactly what software you want, the downside is that it's not nicely packaged for you (meaning you have to invest some effort into making it work).
In this case - RPi is more like an iMac - you just copy a ready-made SD card "image" onto the card and are ready to go. The downside being that if there's something you don't like about it, it can be harder to change it.
Not saying that you cannot hack your iMac or build your own application set based on bare Raspian, but if you do, you might as well buy a platform suited for that.
Yes.
Well, that depends on your definition. This exactly is the reason why I'd like hardware (like the MDAC) to use as much standard interfaces and connectors as possible - it's much easier for me to ensure that it will remain working than it is with custom components or interfaces. I have no doubt that John will support his products in the future, I guess I just come from a culture where people are actually *proud* that their products don't need their presence to live on. One of the reasons why "open source" and "open hardware" exist, btw.
My point is that a board, which has all the drivers in the upstream Linux kernel, is more likely to "work for the forseeable future" (and further) compared to a board, which needs a custom kernel (which can get outdated when the company behind it discontinues the product, etc.).
Therefore I guess it depends on how you define "support".
The microprocessor hardware manufacturer ecosystem seems very fragmented to me, so many choices - Samsung, Motorola, Qualcomm, Broadcom, Fujitsu, TI, Altera, MediaTek, Huawei, Atmel, ..., all very confusing.
It's just about the point of view.
Exactly, if RPi, then because of the community. It has virtually no other advantage (well, price perhaps).
JohnW
pfm member
For a few reasons, BTW your one step ahead of us, as it would be the "L4"
:-1. Optimised clock structure - it would be clocklocked to the MDAC2's Audio clock (sure we could also do this via Async. USB).
2. Optimised PSU to reduce potential noise injection into the audio system.
3. An integrated "One Box solution" - based upon a common platform which is the same for all units to help debug and reduce software compatibility issues and the such.
I don't want to mess with computers - I'd just like to "plug in" the box and go... not hours configuring and playing about with the system. I just like to listen to high quality Music (HiFi) and not needing to be a rocket scientist to do so....
Some manufacturers (like Naim) may hear your words...
[QUOTE Originally Posted by JohnW
I don't want to mess with computers - I'd just like to "plug in" the box and go... not hours configuring and playing about with the system. I just like to listen to high quality Music (HiFi) and not needing to be a rocket scientist to do [/QUOTE]
John, I entirely agree with the second sentence, and mostly with the first. I have 'messed with computers' in the sense of trying to get the best sound out of a Mac mini, but that's as far as I go, and given that I can stream to this mini if I want to, is there any point in the RPi business for me, and for others who already have a computer in their system? With no vinyl, L2 looks to be enough for me.
I don't want to mess with computers - I'd just like to "plug in" the box and go... not hours configuring and playing about with the system. I just like to listen to high quality Music (HiFi) and not needing to be a rocket scientist to do [/QUOTE]
John, I entirely agree with the second sentence, and mostly with the first. I have 'messed with computers' in the sense of trying to get the best sound out of a Mac mini, but that's as far as I go, and given that I can stream to this mini if I want to, is there any point in the RPi business for me, and for others who already have a computer in their system? With no vinyl, L2 looks to be enough for me.
JohnW
pfm member
I hope that in the future we might employ a computer programmer on a per project basis who can write "applications" that will operate with the on MDAC2's L4 processor - such as:-
Jitter analyser with FFT spectrum analysis
Jitter generator with FFT spectrum analysis
Signal Generator
FFT spectrum analyser
Self contained Media Player
Self contained Recorder Etc etc...
Jitter analyser with FFT spectrum analysis
Jitter generator with FFT spectrum analysis
Signal Generator
FFT spectrum analyser
Self contained Media Player
Self contained Recorder Etc etc...
Just by the way - there are already some existing applications in that sense, ie. http://linux-sound.org/dsp.html (outdated), the problem I was mentioning lies in custom interfacing with the MDAC, like monitoring its internal state instead of analyzing the output signal (which would have to be somehow ADC'd as well).
Also,http://www.vamp-plugins.org/ (and one of the plugins, http://marsyas.info/).
Also,http://www.vamp-plugins.org/ (and one of the plugins, http://marsyas.info/).
Bigbobby666
pfm Member
Out of interest how would their employment be funded?
JohnW
pfm member
Bob,
I need to complete the Lab first - then employ an electronics engineer to help with the PCB build and pre testing then I can consider employing a part time software engineer.
Here in Czech you would be surprised how little a very good computer programmer cost - compared to US / UK salary, and I'd be looking for a University student - someone young and dynamic, excited to work in Audio and try out new ideas.
I've not done much on the lab recently, I've been too busy with the MDAC2 design and prototype development / testing.
While "bench space" is very limited at the moment (I'm constantly getting frustrated) I can ill afford the time to complete the lab until I've at least issued the Analogue PCB - then, maybe only 2 to 3 weeks will be required to complete the lab to a basic working condition so there's not much left to do now
.... I'm sure its going to be harder to find an engineer - a semi retired "slow but methodical" engineer would be perfect, someone who takes their time, but whom I can trust.
JohnW
pfm member
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/86116171/MDAC2 1pS Gen.jpg
The MDAC2 Clock / PSU prototype board is perfroroming better then I dared hoped for
The above plot shows the Advance Clock section of the MDAC2 "Jittering" its own Clock at 1Khz and 1pS
The "Clock Jitter" noise floor at about 100fS to 200fS is limited by the measurement system - I'll setup the more advance measurement system later - but results are already very very good indeed
The advanced clock of the L2/L3 units allows the MDAC2 to decorrelate any clock spurie in a controlled (and user adjustable manner) as part of its next generation D3E strategy.
The MDAC2 Clock / PSU prototype board is perfroroming better then I dared hoped for
The above plot shows the Advance Clock section of the MDAC2 "Jittering" its own Clock at 1Khz and 1pS
The "Clock Jitter" noise floor at about 100fS to 200fS is limited by the measurement system - I'll setup the more advance measurement system later - but results are already very very good indeed
The advanced clock of the L2/L3 units allows the MDAC2 to decorrelate any clock spurie in a controlled (and user adjustable manner) as part of its next generation D3E strategy.
Mikas
pfm Member
I guess I'm as familiar with the average jitter figures as the next guy, so I just have to guess that those numbers are promising and the MDAC2 will be a jitter killer on its own class.The above plot shows the Advance Clock section of the MDAC2 "Jittering" its own Clock at 1Khz and 1pS
The "Clock Jitter" noise floor at about 100fS to 200fS is limited by the measurement system - I'll setup the more advance measurement system later - but results are already very very good indeed
Michael
Bigbobby666
pfm Member
Bob,
I need to complete the Lab first - then employ an electronics engineer to help with the PCB build and pre testing then I can consider employing a part time software engineer.
Here in Czech you would be surprised how little a very good computer programmer cost - compared to US / UK salary, and I'd be looking for a University student - someone young and dynamic, excited to work in Audio and try out new ideas.
I've not done much on the lab recently, I've been too busy with the MDAC2 design and prototype development / testing.
While "bench space" is very limited at the moment (I'm constantly getting frustrated) I can ill afford the time to complete the lab until I've at least issued the Analogue PCB - then, maybe only 2 to 3 weeks will be required to complete the lab to a basic working condition so there's not much left to do now
Cool, sounds good! Impressive if you can get a graduate software developer that can produce production standard code!
This post has very little to do with the MDAC2 (which I'm waiting and longing for), anyway skilled and knowledgeable people here that may be able to help me.
My current (partly new as of today) setup is
MediaPC -> USB (Pang USB Card (dubious if the card contributed to anything better) -> MDAC -> ShengYa A17CS/Vincent Amp -> Gauder Acoustic (ex Isophone) Arcona 100 speakers (new as of today and sounds absolutely wonderful, love them. Replacing my Evolution Acoustics MicroOnes which also are very, very good, to be archived for my son when he moves into his own apartment.)
My problem is: Since today with my new speakers my amplifier has twice (high volume) gone into protection mode i.e. shut down. This has never happened before with any any other speakers I've had e.g. KEF XQ40's.
I know that the Dr Gauder (designer of my speakers has implemented "symmetrical crossovers" and >50db slopes aso).
Also noticed that German mag Audio.de had similar problem with these speakers and Marantz PMA 6000 something amp.
Anyone can advice on suitable amplifiers for my setup?
/Lars
My current (partly new as of today) setup is
MediaPC -> USB (Pang USB Card (dubious if the card contributed to anything better) -> MDAC -> ShengYa A17CS/Vincent Amp -> Gauder Acoustic (ex Isophone) Arcona 100 speakers (new as of today and sounds absolutely wonderful, love them. Replacing my Evolution Acoustics MicroOnes which also are very, very good, to be archived for my son when he moves into his own apartment.)
My problem is: Since today with my new speakers my amplifier has twice (high volume) gone into protection mode i.e. shut down. This has never happened before with any any other speakers I've had e.g. KEF XQ40's.
I know that the Dr Gauder (designer of my speakers has implemented "symmetrical crossovers" and >50db slopes aso).
Also noticed that German mag Audio.de had similar problem with these speakers and Marantz PMA 6000 something amp.
Anyone can advice on suitable amplifiers for my setup?
/Lars
It's kind of hard to image the technology needed to measure such low latencies when you realize that the speed of light is ~0.3 meters per nanosecond in vacuum. Or 0.3 millimetres per picosecond.The above plot shows the Advance Clock section of the MDAC2 "Jittering" its own Clock at 1Khz and 1pS
The "Clock Jitter" noise floor at about 100fS to 200fS is limited by the measurement system - I'll setup the more advance measurement system later - but results are already very very good indeed
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