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MDAC First Listen (part 00011110)

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That would be very interesting - and I look forward to your visit - hopefully you will be able to stay atleast a few days so we can spend time getting used to the system - and try various options etc...

Wizz Air to Brno - we will collect you from the airport which is only 50km away and arrange the hotel etc :)

That sounds like a date then. I look forward to it.
(It could be my Glastonbury substitute for this year (didn't apply for any tickets this year) but without tents and with better sanitary facilities)
 
Legally we cannot add "standby" as current EU regulations stipulate that any product with "Standby feature" must consume under 0.5W - and that's to low even to power the MDAC2's clock circuits!


0.5W figure doesn't seem to apply to gaming consoles...

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/1...to-sony-advantage-and-future-efficiency-gains

:D

But this is just a curiosity. I'm not particularly interested in a standby mode.

If the MDAC is ready to play a couple of seconds after being turned on, it's ok by me. It's good enough to play some music at home.

If it takes less than 2 hours or so to achieve optimal performance for detailed listening sessions, than it's also ok by me.
:)

Michael
 
0.5W figure doesn't seem to apply to gaming consoles...

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/1...to-sony-advantage-and-future-efficiency-gains

:D

But this is just a curiosity. I'm not particularly interested in a standby mode.

If the MDAC is ready to play a couple of seconds after being turned on, it's ok by me. It's good enough to play some music at home.

If it takes less than 2 hours or so to achieve optimal performance for detailed listening sessions, than it's also ok by me.
:)

Michael
2 hours!! I,d have to put it on a timer ready for when I get home.
Or perhaps like a slow cooker on really low, just to the components that matter :D
 
2 hours!! I,d have to put it on a timer ready for when I get home.
Or perhaps like a slow cooker on really low, just to the components that matter :D

If I remember correctly from a experience I've made on a weekend last year, it took a little more than one hour for the MDAC to deliver a sound that I was unable to differenciate from the sound memory of the evening before.
Until than, it sounded ok, detailed and precise but also less natural. I was missing something. This was easy to notice on female vocals for example.
- On a 'cold' MDAC, the vocals seemed ok, detailed and precise but I was more aware I was listening to a recording.
- After one hour the vocals gain a more natural sound.

This was with my own standard MDAC on a + - 21C. room.

This could also be the result of a psychological phenomena related to the time the brain takes to optimize the information it gets, but nevertheless, this was the honest result of my own experience.
:)

Michael
 
I have found my original M-DAC to sound okay after between 1and 2 hours, but will take even longer to perform at its best.
After being on for 24 hours there seam to be no further improvements though.
I never turn my off anymore. I would hate myself for trying to save some bucks, or even the environment, as soon as wanted some music, if I did.

I will have to help saving the environment by different means. ;-)
 
I have found my original M-DAC to sound okay after between 1and 2 hours, but will take even longer to perform at its best.
After being on for 24 hours there seam to be no further improvements though.
I never turn my off anymore. I would hate myself for trying to save some bucks, or even the environment, as soon as wanted some music, if I did.

I will have to help saving the environment by different means. ;-)

Unfortunately display will die in some years of performing 24/7.
 
JohnW: I don't know if you've dispatched my L2Toy board, but if not, is there any way that the output gain can be reduced on it? Reason I ask is that my pre doesn't like XLR attenuators (they rob the bass and the vibrancy of the music for some reason) and even with the input sensitivity of the speakers reduced, it's still ridiculously loud at 9pm on the preamp dial. Sure, I could use the MDAC in pre mode but then that would be two preamps which seems wrong somehow...

Your advice welcomed... ta.
 
John, I received the 20db bulk foil attenuators last week, thanks for your work! (I liked the re-identification you have done). I have had an interesting time comparing these with an equivalent amount of digital attenuation. From this the digital attenuation seems to be noticeably superior! The attenuators soften the sound. The music is more alive without them, no question. This was at a volume setting of around -38 and -18 respectively. I have put about 15 hours on them now with all the back to back runs, but haven't noticed any character change in that time. I have been surprised how noticeable the difference was, which makes me think something else might be going on, could there be an interaction with the amp (input impedance of 200k ohm)?
I guess these represent a gold standard of attenuation, with bulk foil throughout. For me the outcome rules out the passive pre option. So all in all a bit of a disappointing experiment (my personal bias and hope was definitely the other way), but just to be clear it was always to me an experiment, I did not consider you were guaranteeing me a sonic benefit. So they haven’t earned themselves a place on the team. I would be open to someone else trying them out if interested.
 
I would be open to someone else trying them out if interested.

What do you think about them going on a tour?
Get people to sign up to a list (under your control)
Each person listens/uses for 1-2 weeks then ships them on to the next person
 
Sure (they've got my name on now - what could go wrong?). I'd be interested in the opinions. Let me know (anyone) if you would like a try, it will just cost you the shipping, and the first and last will have to jump them across from/to Germany (infact I think it would cost just 4 eur here to the UK). Would you like to try them first Chris? Would you like to pm me an address and I'll give you an e-mail for paypal payment. (Do I need to put a list up somewhere, new thread I guess?)
 
John, I received the 20db bulk foil attenuators last week, thanks for your work! (I liked the re-identification you have done). I have had an interesting time comparing these with an equivalent amount of digital attenuation. From this the digital attenuation seems to be noticeably superior! The attenuators soften the sound. The music is more alive without them, no question. This was at a volume setting of around -38 and -18 respectively. I have put about 15 hours on them now with all the back to back runs, but haven't noticed any character change in that time. I have been surprised how noticeable the difference was, which makes me think something else might be going on, could there be an interaction with the amp (input impedance of 200k ohm)?
I guess these represent a gold standard of attenuation, with bulk foil throughout. For me the outcome rules out the passive pre option. So all in all a bit of a disappointing experiment (my personal bias and hope was definitely the other way), but just to be clear it was always to me an experiment, I did not consider you were guaranteeing me a sonic benefit. So they haven’t earned themselves a place on the team. I would be open to someone else trying them out if interested.

Tony,

Thats useful feedback - both yours and JTC's experiences follow my own.

I found that increasing the output impedance of the Dac by even a few ohms "softens" the leading edge Bass Attach... loosing its foot tapping ability...

MDAC's output impedance is sub ohm - limited by the contact resistance of the Mute Relay and XLR connector etc. Your 20dB attenuators increase this to a little under 47 ohms - so about x100 greater output impedance.

By line source standards 47 ohms is still "low impedance" - but the effects are audible.

Its worth trying the attenuators placed at the MDAC end of the cable - or at the Amplifier end of the cable - I suspect each of these positions will sound different, it would be worth a try...

A while back I mentioned the idea of a version of MDAC2 that used "Remote Sense" feedback to reduce the influence of the interconnection cable & Relay / connector resistance - based upon my observations of the influence of even a few ohms had on sound quality.

Upon reflection I was leaning away from the idea due to the extra complication of custom cables + connectors but your post has got me thinking about it once again...

Hopefully sometime in the future I can discount the cost of one of our products to allow you to recover the cost of the attenuators as we have all benefited from your "costly" experience...
 
I didn't recall the effect being that strong. Maybe due to the different equipment.

Well, I'm not using my attenuators anymore. In fact I'm selling the Adams.
 
Unfortunately display will die in some years of performing 24/7.

With display dimming, the OLED display panel will outlive the capacitors in the MDAC.... At the low panel brightness used in the "Dim" setting, the panel lifetime has dropped off the "lifetime curves" provided by the panel manufacturer...
 
Hopefully MDAC2 will have display off.

For the MDAC2 the MDAC's front panel is reused (with no Power on LED) - we cannot switch off the display without a means to indicate the unit is powered... but as my above post - at the very low Brightness settings used in the "Dimmed mode" the panel will outlive MDAC2's rated lifetime of the capacitors.
 
John could you include an auto off function to circumvent euro power directives?

Crappy Europe directives - they just pile more and more legislation onto manufactures - I cannot blink an eye without breaking some rule...

I'm not sure what advantage (legal or otherwise) that "Auto off" would bring...

The ClassA and shunt PSU design of the MDAC2 does not lend itself to a "low Power mode" without a good deal of extra complexity. If I reduce the ClassA standing current - then the Shunt Regulators would then just end-up dissipating the extra current - I would also have to reduce the Current sources to the shunt Regs = 4 output stages + 4 Shunt supply rails that would need to be switched... that's a lot of extra circuitry to switch all of these circuit blocks, while insuring no detriment to SQ...
 
Can we pay Dominik for supplying a "hacked" firmware that allows a user to dim the display more?
And by more I mean completely. ;-)
 
JohnW: I don't know if you've dispatched my L2Toy board, but if not, is there any way that the output gain can be reduced on it? Reason I ask is that my pre doesn't like XLR attenuators (they rob the bass and the vibrancy of the music for some reason) and even with the input sensitivity of the speakers reduced, it's still ridiculously loud at 9pm on the preamp dial. Sure, I could use the MDAC in pre mode but then that would be two preamps which seems wrong somehow...

Your advice welcomed... ta.

John,

I wish I could say I'd shipped your board - but I've been engrossed in the MDAC2 design.

I'd performed some quick design simulations and I can reduce the gain by 20dB BUT:-

1. The headphone output will also be reduced by 20dB

2. The Dynamic range will also be reduced by upto 20dB (I'd need to confirm exact number by measurement).

3. Cannot say how it will sound without first making the modifications...

Your call - I can modify but at your risk.... let me know as your units on the bench ATM (I'm going to get a few hours sleep now)....
 
Tony,

Thats useful feedback - both yours and JTC's experiences follow my own.

Also my experience, even only with "cheap" metal film resistors, when driving active Adams. Muddy sound without life.

Week back I purchased nCores 400 monoblocks and Focal Alto Utopia speakers, a big step forward :)
Just fighting with high gain again, luckily now can be solved more easily removing 1 smd resistor from each monoblock. Just I don't have equipment and skills to do that :( Anybody close to Munich open to do that? :))

Also can confirm warm-up of the MDAC makes big difference. When I was picking up those speakers, we demo them firstly with old Denon CD player and some multichannel McIntosh amplifier, sound was great. Than I switched to nCores with MDAC and I was quite shocked how it sound. As I heard nCores for a first time, I worried if it was a good buy.. But connecting Denon to nCores brought sound back. After about 30 minutes we pushed MDAC back and ooo, MDAC how I know it was there again:)

Wish I could test MDAC2 already :)
 
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