Very few people disliked the Cirkus. I can live with it, my main deck has one in it, but I think the pre-Cirkus is better. Not in Hi-Fi terms but it's more open and alive sounding.
LP12 Karousel Upgrade
- Thread starter Confirm74
- Start date
Very few people disliked the Cirkus. I can live with it, my main deck has one in it, but I think the pre-Cirkus is better. Not in Hi-Fi terms but it's more open and alive sounding.
Paul Hindle
Do you mock me?
After having the Karousel fitted, one of the major improvements was that some lps that were really crackley were suddenly listenable. Worthwhile improvement over the Cirkus and I preferred the Cirkus to the pre C.
Yes essential upgrade for Linnies, but like all upgrades, after the initial ‘wow’, one forgets what the wow was about, and short of repeatedly reverting back, which is neither possible nor desirable, one is no longer aware of the improvements wrought about by the change, other than the improvement in the musical listening experience.
I recall, however, the improved sense of vocal realism brought about by the bearing change, rather than the effects upon the noise floor, though i’m sure that noise reduction was a factor in the increased realism effect.
In fact, as a fellow LP12 owner said to me, almost all upgrades, be they power supply upgrades, or subchassis upgrades etc., appear to have favourable effects upon lowering the noise floor.
For those who have had the good sense to upgrade to the Karousel, the next upgrade should be the selling of one’s car to finance the purchase of the Radikal 2 (Klimax-machined from solid aluminium version) which causes the noise floor to plummet still further
I recall, however, the improved sense of vocal realism brought about by the bearing change, rather than the effects upon the noise floor, though i’m sure that noise reduction was a factor in the increased realism effect.
In fact, as a fellow LP12 owner said to me, almost all upgrades, be they power supply upgrades, or subchassis upgrades etc., appear to have favourable effects upon lowering the noise floor.
For those who have had the good sense to upgrade to the Karousel, the next upgrade should be the selling of one’s car to finance the purchase of the Radikal 2 (Klimax-machined from solid aluminium version) which causes the noise floor to plummet still further
You can't do quick A-B tests but you can change back. I bought the Cikus not long after it came out. I was initially impressed with it but over time I had a nagging dissatisfaction with the deck. After a few years I took the Cirkus back out and refitted the pre-Cirkus bearing. Never put a Cirkus back in again.
My main LP12 has a Cirkus in it just now but my second LP12 is pre-Cirkus. Even though it is lower spec you can hear the difference the bearing makes and I prefer it. The Cirkus deck is not bad, I like it, but the lesser deck is the one that drags you into the music more.
Dave Cattlin
pfm Member
+1
Paul Hindle
Do you mock me?
My take is that both new bearings brought more detail and less surface noise but as the pre-cirkus was the first I ever heard I can well understand why some might prefer it. The Karousel takes the sound closer to the digital world imo but not too far for me. The pre-Cirkus takes us back to when we were first amazed by the LP12. It’s interesting now how over the years, the power supply, subchassis and bearing have become the important bits and the arm/cartridge less so. Who new?
JezmondTutu
pfm Member
I have a Karousel and really like what it does, came from a pre-Cirkus black bearing too. But the current list price of £900 (plus fitting?) for a does seems bonkers.
Paul Hindle
Do you mock me?
Prices are pretty bonkers I agree but you can pick up a Karousel for around £600 used if you shop around which is a “bit” better. These days I would advise people to look for a used TT that has all the required bits and just buy that. Probably works out cheaper in the long run. Even better, get a dealer to build one to a spec with used parts and trade in your own. You could keep the plinth if required. I certainly wouldn’t do what I did again upgrading things piecemeal. For what I spent over the years (just under £6k with trade ins) I could have picked up the same spec LP12 for less than £4K.
per-Sony-fied
Me in another jacket
On the way up again
That is bonkers! I'm sure that price include fitting though.JezmondTutu
pfm Member
On the way up again
£915, ok it included fitting.
Used ones of course will be plus fitting. Yes, you can do it yourself but I would advise only if you are competent, You also need to have access to the right tools, for instance a Wera torque wrnech which will cost you around £135.
Some dealers I would trust to mess with my LP12, some I wouldn't. The performance of Linn dealers may go up as well as down and future happiness is not guaranteed. Other torque wrenches are available.
Howdy
pfm Member
The Wera wrench that Linnies are using is actually not ideal.
IMO it's too long for it's range, Hazet would be better (bit more expansive, tho). It has 1/4" drive, which doesn't fit 20 mm sockets. But it is actually made by Norbar, so UK not German, if that is a plus.
But does it still have the Celtic Cross on the handle? White supremacy/neo-nazi simbol?
I have Britool one that actually has 3/8" drive in 2.5-11Nm range to match 3/8" drive of my Norbar 12-50Nm.
Chris
pfm Member
No Karousel, so no idea but has anyone actually tried it just a tad more than finger -tight which, elsewhere on the LP12, and as time has taught us, is possibly better than Linn-tight. Or is the torque wrench innovation precisely to prevent overtightening as opposed to encouraging it.
tpetsch
...The rhythm has Control
Tune/Tone Torquing an LP12 in an attempt to achieve best sound is futile for the most part but is a good idea in general so bits don't get over torqued and generally speaking Linn tight is too tight. An LP12 is mainly wood and stamped sheet metal which will very wildly with temperature and humidity changes/conditions throughout the year, contracting/twisting and drying out in the winter and expanding/untwisting and getting effected/swelling by humidity in the warmer months. Modern materials like ceramics and tancast/carbon fiber sandwich are much more stable thus less effected, ceramic main bearings can be machine matched to their spindles to much tighter micron tolerances because industrial ceramics are relatively unaffected by normal temperature swings and humidity, where as if any alloy/metal bearings were machined to such tight tolerances seizing would occur within a narrow +/-20 degree f temp swing from it's finished machining temp during manufacture.
NickofWimbledon
pfm Member
I am neither Christian nor Irish, but I suspect a lot of people have a very different view of a Celtic Cross from the one you mention. More basically perhaps, where is the cross?
Mind you, I suspect a 'show us your torque wrench' thread would be a bit niche, even for PFM...
Alun Rains
Jus Juan Cornetto
IMHO the Karousel is the best bearing that Linn have produced. I paid £700 fitted for a new Karousel soon after they were first released.
This was an upgrade from a Cirkus fitted a few years earlier which replaced a black liner bearing from 1991.
To me the Karousel offers the precision of the Cirkus bearing along with the musicality of the black liner bearing and then some on top.
At £915 fitted today it is becoming pretty expensive though.
This was an upgrade from a Cirkus fitted a few years earlier which replaced a black liner bearing from 1991.
To me the Karousel offers the precision of the Cirkus bearing along with the musicality of the black liner bearing and then some on top.
At £915 fitted today it is becoming pretty expensive though.
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My low-value torque wrench is an Effetto Mariposa which goes down to less than 2nm I think, I can't remember.
