I wouldn't take a ProJect arm if you begged me. Bu the way, I repaired a ProJect carbon tonearm a few years ago and had to remove the arm tube from the bearing boss. Turned out the arm tube was aluminium with a carbon effect wrap on it!
Linn Sondek LP12 : Purpose built, or not and to what Spec ?
- Thread starter highfell
- Start date
I wouldn't take a ProJect arm if you begged me. Bu the way, I repaired a ProJect carbon tonearm a few years ago and had to remove the arm tube from the bearing boss. Turned out the arm tube was aluminium with a carbon effect wrap on it!
That's Linn dealers for you. If you buy a system and are perfectly happy with it you're not much use to them. They want you back every few months to buy the next on a never ending list of upgrades. That's where their money comes from.
david ellwood
Kirabosi Kognoscente
FFS, you’d think Linn had the monopoly on the capitalist ideal
Who is it you are talking to?
I meant that you will be impressed at how close it comes to the LP12 in terms of performance to its contemporary LP12's. I very much expect it would fall some way behind current LP12's costing £ thousands more.
Mechanically the Mantra's suspension layout is superior the LP12, as is the sub-chassis in general, though it does suffer from a weak arm-board mounting on the chassis. Doug Hewitt should have paid more attention to that in my mind. However, there's much the can be done to improve the Mantra, though it already has a high precision brass main bearing, especially so if the Mega bearing was installed. A Magician arm would be great if you could get one. With LP12's the sky really is the limit, it just depends how deep you pockets are...!
For me the best TT is the one who's musical presentation you may prefer for a given outlay.
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That can only be one man - Mr, Ellwood!
Apologies for not quoting or naming Mr. E in my reply, but as my post was immediately after his I assumed continuity would have sufficed to avoid confusion.
For me the LP12 with the magic is the pre Cirkus 80s deck. It has that warmth and it boogies. The Cirkus makes it more accurate and "better" but it loses the magic. At that point there are any number of decks for less that are better. But the 80s one doesn't have competition that do what it does, if you like the trick.
Same goes for Naim amps. If you like it, great. Nothing else will do.
Same goes for Naim amps. If you like it, great. Nothing else will do.
The intention is to make the Linn the last turntable. I really only play traditional LPs, but maybe some 45s.
I suppose the Linn is my target because when I bought my first Hifi system it was the perceived Holy Grail. Its longevity is proof it has to be good, because nothing can last that long. I realise there will probably be more accurate turntables, but I do want a real analogue sounding turntable to differentiate from my Hugo2 Dac.
The Hugo2 is terrific as it produces an very accurate, detailed but also a euphoric sound, and I am keen to have a turntable that is therefor very musical & analogue first and foremost and I believe that a Linn will fit the bill.
I like having hifi components that have different sound signatures - no one is perfect but having contrasting units is fun.
Hmm - this is something I need to consider
He does have a point. I got the Cirkus fitted shortly after it came out but a few years later I took it out again. Better Hi-Fi less music. The deck I have just now is a Cirkus one and I'm ok with it but I'm going to build a pre-Cirkus one, just because...
So I could go down that route, make sure it has a decent power supply and sub-chassis and spend a grand plus plus on a decent tone-arm and cartridge and be someway less than £3.5K
EDIT : what good tonearms Linn or not Linn work well
rstloup
pfm Member
You can definitely find a pre-cirkus model for cheap. The issue is finding one that has been upgraded that wasn't fitted with one. I chose mine pre-cirkus specifically because I had it connected to a NAC 42/110 + Kan IIs
James
Lord of the Erg\o/s
Well, I hung onto my pre-Cirkus bearing because - as you say - it boogies and plays music like no other. Especially with Naim 'Geddon and ARO. But I have to say the Karousel absolutely blows the pre-Cirkus out of the water. It is better in every way. I never tried the Cirkus.
You could certainly put together a very good LP12 for way less than that. The problem with older bearings though is that, well, they're old. The youngest pre-Cirkus bearing is now thirty years old, is that right? It's a bearing, they wear out. Like I said though, if you factor in an extra few hundred for a good used bearing it's not a big worry but you're unlikely to find a good pre-Cirkus bearing now. The one I have here is worn.
Most popular arms work well on the LP12, as do most cartridges. It's quite a forgiving platform so it's really just a matter of taste. Personally, I use Rega arms these days as I think they're hard to beat for the money. Always have been. Classic Linn arms are very old now. The Basiks are budget arms and sound like it. Fragile too. The Ittok is good and looks fantastic but very old and few people fix them. Ekos is just a better Ittok. I could happily live with either but a brand new RB3000 costs the same as an Ekos and sounds better.
It depends on what you like. The Ittok/Ekos are a tight, robust sound with unipivots like the Aro/Nima at the other end of the spectrum with a liquid/analogue sound. Beautiful midrange in particular but not as tight and incisive at the top and bottom. Rega arms are kinda in between I'd say.
Same with cartridges. Just depends on what you like. A heck of a lot of people use Audio Technica MM carts on the LP12, even fairly hi-spec ones. It's a good pairing.
Dave J
Übermember
The opinions of a couple of armchair experts will only confuse you. Your absolute best bet is to visit Cymbiosis, give them your budget and they’ll let you hear the options available, new, used, both. They have 20-30 LP12s set up so you can compare bearings and sub-chassis, for example. And they’re not averse to recommending a non-Linn component where it’s demonstrably better (or cheaper).
You’ll have a great time, discover what really works for you and you won’t be pressured into buying anything. But if you do buy one, you’ll get an LP12 built by an expert.
You’ll have a great time, discover what really works for you and you won’t be pressured into buying anything. But if you do buy one, you’ll get an LP12 built by an expert.
The Bish
pfm Member
Agreed. I did this and ended up with a new LP12, with Mose PSU, Basik+ arm, older subchassis, and new VM540ML cart. Have since been back and upgraded the arm, subchassis, and sourced a cheap s/h lingo 2, and Cymbiosis always give a good price to take components back part ex. It was nice to select plinth of choice and start with Karousel.
torstoi
pfm Member
Carbon/ alloy mix, there has been a few carbon only arms for a while,
but I preferred the carbon/ alloy models.
The arms are incredibly quick and rather dry sounding which some may perceive as a little lean
compared to other arms.
I'd agree they might not be for everyone as to me they lack a sympathetic own tonality.
The bearings are very good and with demanding material I very much appreciate their lack of signature and
the precision they offer.
I prefer them to Regas meanwhile which to me are bringing a certain signature with them I'm not so fond of anymore.
It's a matter of taste in my opinion and I think the kind of music material you typically listen to also plays a role if that's important to you or if you like it or not.
To me what Funk did was to remove the Rega armtube (an thus the to me unpleasant Rega signature) and replaced it by an alloy/ carbon mix structure + went for better bearings.
The result is something that's closer to a Project carbon than a Rega in sound.