Lib Dems - Tories in Disguise
- Thread starter Snufkin
- Start date
jackbarron
Chelsea, London
I agree. The Labour Conference will no doubt be annoying. Last year's featured a prime example of Corbyn and McCluskey politricking. They are con-merchants and treat supporters like riff-raff. They made Remain goals almost impossible to achieve.
This is why I won't vote for them.
Jack
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
Labour have been given a big boot up the arse by the Lib Dems today. Cowards to the core, they have whined that a general election focusing on the revoking of Article 50 is undemocratic.
This is coming from a political Party which has chosen to ignore the fact that the majority of its supporters and MPs are Remainers and anti-Brexit. Let's sweep them under the ideological carpet, muttered Corbyn and Milne, so they won't make any trouble.
I hope it all kicks off in the Labour Party.
Jack
But ‘the fact’ is that Labour voters are split between Leave and Remain. Labour will lose as much as it gains by going all out Remain. Which is why it’s current policy makes sense, keeping options open while maintaining a strong anti Tory stance.
tuga
Legal Alien
Not much of a leader...
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
Is that because Revoke is the only notable policy difference between the LD’s and the Tories?
droodzilla
pfm Member
Yes. The fact is that however much Remainers hate Corbyn and the Labour Party, if they *really* want to stop Brexit (as opposed indulging in "betrayal" psychodramas and revenge fantasies) they *need* Labour to do at least well enough to deny the Conservatives (+DUP?) an outright majority. Therefore, anything that damages Labour too badly is self-defeating. The LD's current "Revoke or bust" position is dangerous because:
1. It divides the anti-Conservative vote in seats where Labour is the natural challenger. That's potentially one more seat for a hard-right, hard-Brexit Conservative Party.
2. If Labour follows the LDs and promises to revoke A50, that papers over the cracks to some extent, but it risks losing seats to Conservatives (and maybe even the Brexit Company) in other parts of the country. Again, a hard-right, hard-Brexit party benefits.
3. Finally, the LDs will not win a majority, so they'll never be in a position to revoke A50 anyway.
In short, from a Remain perspective, there's no upside, only a potentially catastrophic downside (Conservatives win outright majority and we leave the EU in the most damaging fashion). Of course, it might not happen but, in highly volatile political times, why even risk it?
But the Lib-Dems gain a few seats and Labour lose a few more so maybe it'll all be worth it in the end.
It's interesting that even The Guardian (one of the Lib-Dems most reliable cheerleaders) is conflicted about the new direction:
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ts-remain-extremism-labour-opportunity-brexit
If even Polly Toynbee's calling you an "extreme" Remainer, maybe it's time to think again?
Seanm
pfm Member
That is actually as infuriating as the Lid Dem manoeuvre itself! She keeps doing this. The Guardian have spent three years nodding along to every noisy, empty-headed stunt the Lib Dems have pulled on Brexit, while pretending that Corbyn is the chief obstacle to any kind of sensible solution. It's completely predictable that Swinson and her cronies should get the message that they can basically get away with any self-serving BS they feel like serving up, so long as it deals a blow to Corbyn. And now they're all "Where did this idiotic extremism come from?" I wonder!
Minio
Kind of Sort of Not really...
If everyone voted Lib Dem under their current leadership then all issues in these vast Brexit threads would simply vanish.
That ain't gonna happen, so just think of the Swinson manifesto as posturing up until a GE result comes in.
Which is kind of what the other main party leaders are doing.
She's just trying to claim back the centre ground like Blair and Cameron before her.
That ain't gonna happen, so just think of the Swinson manifesto as posturing up until a GE result comes in.
Which is kind of what the other main party leaders are doing.
She's just trying to claim back the centre ground like Blair and Cameron before her.
droodzilla
pfm Member
Ha, yes! Forgot to say that. Sorry to get you all aeriated!
ff1d1l
pfm Member
Labour 65% remain vote in the ref.
Lib Dem 68%.
G
Guest432
Guest
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
The Lib Dem’s have planted their flag. Let’s see how many voters come to it and which parties they desert in order to do it.
NeilR
pfm Member
No, just a general point about winning a democratic mandate via an election. Nobody can successfully argue that if a party is elected with a clear policy platform, it is undemocratic to then implement said policies.
farfromthesun
pfm Member
In ordinary circumstances you would be wholly correct. Now - overwhelmed as we are with the awful mess of Brexit - a GE would be a single issue election.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
It’s undemocratic to stick two fingers up to the half the population that voted Leave.
farfromthesun
pfm Member
You mean half of the people that voted, of course. What about the other half who have been completely ignored and sidelined for the last 3 and a half years? OK to stick two fingers up at them because they lost?
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
No, absolutely not. We need another referendum based on what we’ve learned over the last 3 years
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
But 60% of Labour constituencies voted Leave.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
A significant chunk of leave voters in those constituencies will be Tories, Lib Dem’s or Farage supporters who’d never vote for a Corbyn-led Labour anyway.