droodzilla
pfm Member
Yeah thoughts and prayers with the Lib-Dems there. Wonder why our Angie’s so reluctant to fight an election?
Lib Dems - Tories in Disguise
- Thread starter Snufkin
- Start date
Seanm
pfm Member
It's certainly ironic that the party of democrats has found that dodging elections is the best way to build their numbers. They're doing more to discredit parliamentary democracy than Johnson.
jackbarron
Chelsea, London
She's not contemplating less than 300 seats, apparently.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49717388
I said earlier on that the Lib Dem proposal to revoke Article 50 will get a lot of Remain voters from both Labour and the Tories. It is in a way the best deal going if you are a Remainer.
Obviously I have no idea exactly how many seats the Lib Dems will get in a general election. But it wouldn't surprise me if they did better than Labour.
The reason for this is quite simple - Brexit is a bigger issue than anything else.
With the Tories and Lib Dems you know exactly where they stand. This will attract voters. Labour meanwhile continue lick the backsides of both Leave and Remain supporters, many of whom are going elsewhere.
I don't like Swineson, but she has made Corbyn and Labour look very stupid. He will be left with a nasty taste in his mouth and not in power.
Jack
Seanm
pfm Member
Unless you actually think that remaining is more important than being a Remainer.
Paul R
pfm Member
Only if they form a majority government. Otherwise it's second referendum.
Which is a problem for them. What happens if somehow they end up with influence, there is a second referendum, it reiterates leave, then what? Better to be up front and honest.
jackbarron
Chelsea, London
gingermrkettle
Deep vein trombonist
So what is Corbyn's "credible" leave for people to vote for and will he campaign for or against it?
droodzilla
pfm Member
What would the Lib-Dem's Leave option be if it has to go to a referendum (which it will)?
Seanm
pfm Member
It means that the Lib Dems' strategy, if it's successful, will split the remain vote and make Brexit more likely. Which is bad for people for whom actually remaining is a priority. For those who just want to bang on about how great the EU is and how stupid people are and when are the grown ups going to return then sure, it's the best Remain offer going.
Jim Audiomisc
pfm Member
It would be whatever the best deal that can be (re-)negotiated will be *so as to then be able to give people a defined choice* between an agreed form of 'leave' conditions and arrangements versus 'remain' in a referendum.
That way the pig is out of the poke and people can see what can be offerred in reality as distinct from off the side of a bus. We could then leave *know where we are going* or decide to stay.
i.e. To allow us all to make a *real world* choice, not one between "project unicorn" and "project fear".
gingermrkettle
Deep vein trombonist
Why do they need one? They aren't the ones promising to come up with something credible.
droodzilla
pfm Member
Because if the LDs can't form an absolute majority they will almost certainly have to endorse a second referendum.
In that scenario, it makes sense to put a relatively sane Leave option on the ballot paper (staying in a customs union as a bare minimum). In contrast, a No Deal option (as once contemplated by Vince Cable) would be a *really* bad idea: https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1173292897883570181.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
I’m pretty certain PaulR will not be offering a defence of Corbyn should his life depend on it, but me myself I don’t understand why Labour’s position is problematic. It is clear. It is to put a Leave deal up against Remain and let people decide in a referendum. Some will argue that the Leave Deal is best, some will argue that Remain is best. We listen to both sides, weigh up the arguments, do a little research, and vote for which we feel is best. Why is that difficult? Why can’t I cope with one Labour politician arguing for a Leave Deal and another arguing for Remain and making up my own mind?
Tony L
Administrator
I just heard Swinson on the news state that the Lib Dems will prop up neither Johnson nor Corbyn, so if that makes it into the manifesto I’m happy enough. I just want them to behave as a block vote as they have been doing since the last election, they should not compromise and take jobs from either of the dinosaur parties in any coalition. Just act as independents on a vote by vote basis.
Tony L
Administrator
You want to see the attack spam/memes on Facebook etc, I’m getting shares of shite from entities as utterly irrelevant to my life as ‘Huddersfield TUC’ etc! The Hattons are clearly rattled!
maxflinn
pfm Member
If we're not careful then some people might start spouting endless anti-Labour vitriol.
Oh wait..
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
What do you think of the vitriol that the Lib Dem leader, in the big wide world outside pfm, has reserved for Labour leader?
And, more important, her relative restraint on all things rabid right wing Tory?
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
You’re wasting your time. He won’t understand as he’s unaffected by what is going on.