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Labour Leader: Keir Starmer VII

First the Labour Party lionise Thatcher, now Boris Johnson was “on to something” on ‘levelling up’.

Angela Rayner on R4 now talking up Labour’s latest ‘be more Tory’ wheeze, but won’t, surprise, surprise, commit any spending to it.

Liz Truss next to be admitted to the Labour hall of fame?

www.telegraph.co.uk

Starmer says Johnson’s levelling up plans were ‘killed at birth’ by Sunak

Labour leader will say Tories have reneged on flagship promise to spread jobs and wealth across country
www.telegraph.co.uk www.telegraph.co.uk
 
Look, I have no desire to wilfully piss on anybody’s chips. But what meaningful change have two Green ministers in the Scottish government brought about? I happen to like Patrick Harvie, he seems a decent bloke, but he and Lorna Slater are simply a bit of Green window dressing on the SNP, co-opted to provide an overall government majority. This is a party who sold off Scottish sea beds to Shell and BP, and whose backbencher Fergus Ewing, tore up the SNP’s consultation document on protected marine environments in Parliament.

Free NHS prescriptions, no university tuition fees, the (wrecked) Gender Recognition Act, and Humza Yousaf’s support for Palestine. God knows the Scottish government is preferable to the rabble in Westminster, but it’s a spectacularly low benchmark against which to measure your achievements. By the time the next Holyrood elections come around in 2026, the SNP will have been in power for 19 years. And yet, their raison d’etre of Scottish Independence is no nearer now than it was 19 years ago, arguably further away.

@Tony L posted this video by Peter Oborne in the Sunak thread. Remember, Oborne is a Tory! (although he seems to be moving left). Despite his instinctual Toryism, Oborne actually realises, through his references to Malcom X and Gramsci, that political power without economic power is merely to apply a democratic veneer to a thoroughly undemocratic structure.

Are we seriously entertaining the notion that this pack of unelected vermin, epitomised by Murdoch, who have infested the political and financial corpus and installed themselves by thoroughly undemocratic, clandestine and illegal means, are going to allow themselves to be removed by anything so piddling as a General Election- wthether by FPTP or PR? Jeremy Corbyn found out the hard way that they are not. Salvador Allende and the population of Chile found out harder still.

www.doubledown.news

EXPOSED: UK Government Captured by Neocon Coup

And one man is at the heart of it
www.doubledown.news www.doubledown.news
 
Finnegan said:
political power without economic power is merely to apply a democratic veneer a thoroughly undemocratic structure.
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There was a time when political power and economic power went hand in hand. When democracy came along the number of hands involved increased and political and
economic power was devolved.

What was new in the 70’s was a new ideology that separated political and economic power, leaving democracy in charge of the many, but hiving off real power, economic power, and handing it back to the few, achieved by subverting the purpose of public spending from public ends to private ends
 
Finnegan said:
Are we seriously entertaining the notion that this pack of unelected vermin, epitomised by Murdoch, who have infested the political and financial corpus and installed themselves by thoroughly undemocratic, clandestine and illegal means, are going to allow themselves to be removed by anything so piddling as a General Election- whether by FPTP or PR?
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Let's say you are right that a violent revolution is required. Orthodox Marxism suggests that you need majority support.
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How long do you think it will take to convert the masses? Or are we going for a Marxist-Leninist 'government of the proletariat'?
 
ks.234 said:
First the Labour Party lionise Thatcher, now Boris Johnson was “on to something” on ‘levelling up’.

Angela Rayner on R4 now talking up Labour’s latest ‘be more Tory’ wheeze, but won’t, surprise, surprise, commit any spending to it.

Liz Truss next to be admitted to the Labour hall of fame?

www.telegraph.co.uk

Starmer says Johnson’s levelling up plans were ‘killed at birth’ by Sunak

Labour leader will say Tories have reneged on flagship promise to spread jobs and wealth across country
www.telegraph.co.uk www.telegraph.co.uk
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How ”levelling up” works

53616192081_167ed52381_z.jpg
 
laughingboy said:
Let's say you are right that a violent revolution is required. Orthodox Marxism suggests that you need majority support.

How long do you think it will take to convert the masses?
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It’s quite interesting when you actually drill down beneath the sloganeering and dogmatic phrases. “The masses” voted in their millions in both 1945 and 2017 for avowedly socialist programmes. How many people do you meet who are decidedly against free education, healthcare, abolition of inequality, and end to famine, warfare, environmental destruction etc?

People today welcome universal franchise and the right to free assembly, abolition of the inequitable poll tax etc, all won through mass action. So it’s not so much a case of didactic conversion of the masses, as an alignment of a specific set of historical and political circumstances.

How long this will take, or when it will occur? Who knows, next year? In a decade? Never? We can’t gaze into a crystal ball.
 
Finnegan said:
It’s quite interesting when you actually drill down beneath the sloganeering and dogmatic phrases. “The masses” voted in their millions in both 1945 and 2017 for avowedly socialist programmes. How many people do you meet who are decidedly against free education, healthcare, abolition of inequality, and end to famine, warfare, environmental destruction etc?

People today welcome universal franchise and the right to free assembly, abolition of the inequitable poll tax etc, all won through mass action. So it’s not so much a case of didactic conversion of the masses, as an alignment of a specific set of historical and political circumstances.

How long this will take, or when it will occur? Who knows, next year? In a decade? Never? We can’t gaze into a crystal ball.
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Thatcherism is a revolution that has killed many thousands and impoverished many more, and continues to do so.
 
So, Thames Water are going bust after having been asset stripped by foreign shareholders to the tune of £7bn, are talking about increasing bills by 40% and the rivers are so full of human faeces that rowers in the Oxford and Cambridge Boat Race have been advised to avoid any skin contact with the water in the Thames.

This should be an open goal for Labour right? Even they must see that nationalising it would be a vote winner.

The government and regulators must do everything in their power to stabilise the company and ensure new investment comes through to fix the broken sewage system without taxpayers being left to foot the bill. Labour will strengthen the regulator’s powers and make financial stability a priority to prevent this situation from happening again.

Hmm. I guess not.
 
Finnegan said:
It’s quite interesting when you actually drill down beneath the sloganeering and dogmatic phrases. “The masses” voted in their millions in both 1945 and 2017 for avowedly socialist programmes. How many people do you meet who are decidedly against free education, healthcare, abolition of inequality, and end to famine, warfare, environmental destruction etc?

People today welcome universal franchise and the right to free assembly, abolition of the inequitable poll tax etc, all won through mass action. So it’s not so much a case of didactic conversion of the masses, as an alignment of a specific set of historical and political circumstances.

How long this will take, or when it will occur? Who knows, next year? In a decade? Never? We can’t gaze into a crystal ball.
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OK, strike 'the masses', replace with 'the majority'. You are not arguing for specific protests within a democratic system (poll tax, women's suffrage, etc). And you are not arguing for change via the ballot box. You are arguing for violent overthrow of the whole system. Which is something quite different.

I asked how long would it take to gain majority support for such a course of action, which you have answered with something that looks to me like an appeal to historical materialism. Which is fine, if that's your answer. I mean, I don't see any prospect of it happening, but at least I understand your position.

And I asked what the post-revolutionary system of government would look like. Because power has to pass into someone's hands - it can't be wished away. I'm in favour of democracy for this very reason. It keeps power accountable, at least to a degree.
 
paulfromcamden said:
So, Thames Water are going bust. This should be an open goal for Labour right? Even they must see that nationalising it would be a vote winner.

The government and regulators must do everything in their power to stabilise the company and ensure new investment comes through to fix the broken sewage system without taxpayers being left to foot the bill. Labour will strengthen the regulator’s powers and make financial stability a priority to prevent this situation from happening again.

Hmm. I guess not.
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Starmer is making it clear that he supports the private sector. They have to fix Thames Water, and they have to finance green energy.

What are Labour offering? ...... err...... "financial stability...."

It's all absolute nonsense and nothing to do with Labour values. Why is Starmer even in the Labour party?
 
les24preludes said:
Starmer is making it clear that he supports the private sector. They have to fix Thames Water, and they have to finance green energy.

What are Labour offering? ...... err...... "financial stability...."

It's all absolute nonsense and nothing to do with Labour values. Why is Starmer even in the Labour party?
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Starmer is not lying, he is being quite honest in telling us that it is financial stability for shareholders that he is desperate to secure above all else
 
If thy were to renationalise w/out compensating the pension schemes, how much of a hit to 'ordinary' folks' retirement plans will there be?
 
Seeker_UK said:
If thy were to renationalise w/out compensating the pension schemes, how much of a hit to 'ordinary' folks' retirement plans will there be?
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Universities Superannuation Scheme already revalued it's stake from £5bn to £2bn.

Not great but I'd argue that's a relatively modest hit on £90bn total assets. Well within weekly market fluctuations of a few %.

I can't see that any other properly invested and diversified pension would take much of a hit. Thames Water are minnows compared with the market cap of the oil companies, banks etc.

Share price of the other water companies would prob collapse too. No bad thing in my book - that's what happens to badly run companies. Let them go bust then buy them for the nation for £1 each.
 
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