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Labour Leader: Keir Starmer VII

It’s sing-along time: “No Jeremy Corbyn, no Jeremy Corbyn, no Jeremy Corbyn” (repeat for all eternity).

Just no room in Suck Here’s Tory culture war-friendly Nu-beige-Labour (Twitter).

PS The ideal would be Labour losing Islington to the Greens or LDs.
 
Tony L said:
PS The ideal would be Labour losing Islington to the Greens or LDs.
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You don't think Corbyn might win? This is about forcing Corbyn and his long time friends to resign from the Party so that he could stand as an independent. Starmer will sacrifice the seat, in the short term, if necessary.
 
gavreid said:
You don't think Corbyn might win? This about forcing Corbyn and his long time friends to resign from the Party so that he could stand as an independent.
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I thought he had already at least implied he wouldn’t stand. To be honest he’d be daft not too, IIRC there is a £12-14k cash payout for contesting a seat previously held. I’m sure that is why a sex-pest expenses-fiddling Labour MP stood here as an independent after deselection a couple of elections ago.

I’ve no idea of Corbyn’s seat demographics or figures. It could be interesting.

PS I’m obviously no Corbyn fan, but I think Starmer is 100% wrong here. This was a ridiculously pointless hill to fight and I hope it loses Labour a vast number of votes right across the country, not only in Islington. This is pure arrogance and authoritarianism to my eyes.
 
Tony L said:
I’ve no idea of Corbyn’s seat demographics or figures. It could be interesting.
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When Nellist was expelled in 92 he only lost narrowly as an indepedent with about 29 or 30 % I think. The Tory almost won in a three horse race. It's now Sultana's seat albeit post boundary changes.
 
"Starmer’s detractors on the left see this as betrayal and a compromise with neoliberalism – the longstanding trope that Tawney described as “the infantile disease of left-wingism” back in the 1930s, “absurd exhibitions of self-righteous sectarianism”. His critics argue that, for all his success in offering reassurance, he lacks a big idea or an overriding intellectual framework. But the big idea is right in front of them. It is to launch a progressive revolution and recast Britain – something that Tony Blair talked about but from whose implications he ultimately shrank."

An interesting read:

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...actors-keir-starmer-radical-transform-country
 
Kirk said:
"Starmer’s detractors on the left see this as betrayal and a compromise with neoliberalism – the longstanding trope that Tawney described as “the infantile disease of left-wingism” back in the 1930s, “absurd exhibitions of self-righteous sectarianism”. His critics argue that, for all his success in offering reassurance, he lacks a big idea or an overriding intellectual framework. But the big idea is right in front of them. It is to launch a progressive revolution and recast Britain – something that Tony Blair talked about but from whose implications he ultimately shrank."

An interesting read:

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...actors-keir-starmer-radical-transform-country
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Hutton supports "Stakeholder Capitalism" so that's no surprise. The ultimate compromise with neoliberalism...
 
Kirk said:
"Starmer’s detractors on the left see this as betrayal and a compromise with neoliberalism – the longstanding trope that Tawney described as “the infantile disease of left-wingism” back in the 1930s
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neoliberalism wasn’t a thing in the 30’s
 
ks.234 said:
neoliberalism wasn’t a thing in the 30’s
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Tawney was denigrating 'seize control of the means of production'-type dogmatic socialism. But at the same time he was arguing for a less binary redistribution of ownership and accountability, based on the moral value of 'service':
RH Tawney said:
So the organisation of society on the basis of functions, instead of on the basis of rights, implies three things. It means, first, that proprietary rights shall be maintained when they are accompanied by the performance of service and abolished when they are not. It means, second, that the producers shall stand in a direct relation to the community for whom production is carried on, so that their responsibility to it may be obvious and unmistakable, not lost, as at present, through their immediate subordination to shareholders whose interest is not service but gain. It means, in the third place, that the obligation for the maintenance of the service shall rest upon the professional organisations of those who perform it, and that, subject to the supervision and criticism of the consumer, those organisations shall exercise so much voice in the government of industry as may be needed to secure that the obligation is discharged.
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Tawney provided the Atlee government with the intellectual ammunition to support nationalisation of natural monopolies. Radical, and a million miles away from what Hutton is arguing, which is 'leave the private sector alone' or nurture it, in almost all circumstances.

While I agree with Hutton that there are things to be welcomed in Starmer's programme - an elected House of Lords (maybe), removal of charitable status for private schools, removal of non-dom status - Hutton is making an argument based on not very much evidence, and it shows. Starmer's policy platform is simply too under-developed to suggest that Starmer will 'transform the country' or 'recast Britain', and it's kind of silly at this point to claim that he will.
 
Tony L said:
I thought he had already at least implied he wouldn’t stand. To be honest he’d be daft not too, IIRC there is a £12-14k cash payout for contesting a seat previously held. I’m sure that is why a sex-pest expenses-fiddling Labour MP stood as an independent after deselection a couple of elections ago.

I’ve no idea of Corbyn’s seat demographics or figures. It could be interesting.

PS I’m obviously no Corbyn fan, but I think Starmer is 100% wrong here. This was a ridiculously pointless hill to fight and I hope it loses Labour a vast number of votes right across the country, not only in Islington. This is pure arrogance and authoritarianism to my eyes.
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This is the crucial point.

Whatever one's feeling's about Corbyn, you have to ask yourself how Starmer will govern the country if he is so ready to trample all over internal party democracy for blatantly factional ends.

He is an authoritarian and a danger.

PS: I don't think Corbyn has ruled out standing as an independent, but that would result in his auto-expulsion, and the expulsion of any Labour Party members who campaigned for him. A cynical move. For whatit's worth, I think Corbyn is one of the few people capable of winning as an independent (though I would not bet on that outcome).
 
laughingboy said:
Tawney was denigrating 'seize control of the means of production'-type dogmatic socialism. But at the same time he was arguing for a less binary redistribution of ownership and accountability, based on the moral value of 'service':


Tawney provided the Atlee government with the intellectual ammunition to support nationalisation of natural monopolies. Radical, and a million miles away from what Hutton is arguing, which is 'leave the private sector alone' or nurture it, in almost all circumstances.

While I agree with Hutton that there are things to be welcomed in Starmer's programme - an elected House of Lords (maybe), removal of charitable status for private schools, removal of non-dom status - Hutton is making an argument based on not very much evidence, and it shows. Starmer's policy platform is simply too under-developed to suggest that Starmer will 'transform the country' or 'recast Britain', and it's kind of silly at this point to claim that he will.
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Yes, but not sure that described opposition to neoliberism as “the infantile disease”. Wasn’t that Lenin talking about opposition to Bolshevism?

I know Hutton is a controversialist, but the idea that Starmer is about to launch “a progressive revolution and recast Britain” is a triumph of hope over observation
 
Tony L said:
In other news: here’s Labour MP Rosie Duffield in effect liking a Holocaust denial post on Twitter.
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Liking a post by Graham Linehan is bad enough.

He was crowing about a group of far-right thugs attacking a young female trans activist the other day.

He's completely lost the plot.

But yeah, Duffield is atrocious.
 
I actually had to google Graham Linehan as I’d not heard the name. Looks like another Scott Adams or Morrissey in that he’s someone who did a lot of good writing early on and then outed himself as a total bigot. Here’s his Wikipedia for anyone else unaware of the name.
 
Kirk said:
"Starmer’s detractors on the left see this as betrayal and a compromise with neoliberalism – the longstanding trope that Tawney described as “the infantile disease of left-wingism” back in the 1930s, “absurd exhibitions of self-righteous sectarianism”. His critics argue that, for all his success in offering reassurance, he lacks a big idea or an overriding intellectual framework. But the big idea is right in front of them. It is to launch a progressive revolution and recast Britain – something that Tony Blair talked about but from whose implications he ultimately shrank."

An interesting read:

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...actors-keir-starmer-radical-transform-country
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Interesting except Tawney didn’t describe compromise with neoliberalism as the “infantile disease….”

Hutton seems to see compromise with neoliberalism in positive terms, whereas in truth Neoliberalism undermines critical Labour social values like fairness, equality of opportunity and public services
 
ks.234 said:
Hutton seems see compromise with neoliberalism in positive terms, whereas in truth Neoliberalism undermines critical Labour social values like fairness, equality of opportunity and public services
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If Hutton was remotely correct there would be several countries operating such models successfully. The truth is that NL smashes all that in favour of profit.
 
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