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Labour Leader: Keir Starmer IV

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Tony L said:
Initially fairly popular, but he got old real fast when the indecision fence came out. Most memorable quote: “Hello, thank you, goodbye” which was used repeatably to articulate Labour’s position on anything important (e.g. Brexit). I’d argue leading a party to defeat against both Theresa May and Boris Johnson was far from the best political CV, but Labour is gonna Labour.
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Corbyn is dead. If we’re going to keep raking over the past we’ll just end up arguing who was most shit; a single oddity called Corbyn or a whole succession of Lib Dem’s who actually put this lot in power to start off with and despite having Remain as a number one priority completely failed to take sufficient votes from the fence sitting Nazi enabling Corbyn to make a difference.
 
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notaclue said:
Young people like to be cool* and a lot of them probably did it because they thought it was cool (as Corbyn had been bigged up by Stormzy and so on). They probably thought they would look square* if they didn't join in the chant. Plus I wouldn't be surprised if a sizeable number of the young people thought Corbyn was a new K-pop band who were on stage next.

* Or whatever young people call these things nowadays.
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Sorry but this is based on false assumptions. On every Corbyn event I attended the audience was a mixture of ages. The idea that he appealed only to the young is wrong. Yes, many young people got involved in politics for the first time because Corbyn’s politics appealed to them, but they were only joining what was a very mixed base.

Corbyn undoubtedly built up a popular base, but the Labour Party decided to undermine it.
 
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Brian said:
Yeah, whatever. If you answer what I first asked you ages ago I may well answer your question. After all, it was just a question and you’re itk.
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OK, if you feel that justifies the shouting then I’ll do my best to answer your question. I do though feel that I’ve responded to all your questions so if you’d remind me of what question it is was that you feel I haven’t answered, I’ll address it directly.
 
I wonder if we can get the youth to chant and sing along to this to help Sir Keir 'connect'?

Change the 'snake charmer' bit to 'Keir Starmer'? o_O I believe it's the sort of rock and roll music that the youth like.

 
It is fascinating to see the replies to Starmer’s tweets. He really isn’t doing well on his own turf (at least I assume those are who’d follow/read his stuff).
 
Seanm said:
Another pledge heading the way of all Starmer pledges - on free social care this time:

https://twitter.com/cjayanetti/status/1408115331642560516?s=21

Just the worst people. The Conservatives will certainly address the social care crisis before this lot.
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It is hard to work out quite what is going on with the current leadership. I had expected the response to falling support over the last few months to be a clarification of their values as a centre left party but this hasn't happened nor does it look as if the reshuffle will be a move in that direction. Considering labour to be the only viable option to the social and economic harm being caused by the current government rests on them being seen as a viable governing party. The more the leadership demonstrates both a lack of competence and an inability to believably and coherently stand for what might be expected of a centre left party (or anything much for that matter) the harder it becomes for those inclinded to support a tradtional labour party to continue to give this leadership the benefit of the doubt. They have failed to get their act together and I can see no signs they are likely to do so in the near future. Rather unexpectedly they have managed to earn my lack of support.

Given the extraordinary state and behaviour of the current conservative party how difficult can it be to provide an effective opposition?
 
h.g. said:
It is hard to work out quite what is going on with the current leadership. I had expected the response to falling support over the last few months to be a clarification of their values as a centre left party but this hasn't happened nor does it look as if the reshuffle will be a move in that direction. Considering labour to be the only viable option to the social and economic harm being caused by the current government rests on them being seen as a viable governing party. The more the leadership demonstrates both a lack of competence and an inability to believably and coherently stand for what might be expected of a centre left party (or anything much for that matter) the harder it becomes for those inclinded to support a tradtional labour party to continue to give this leadership the benefit of the doubt. They have failed to get their act together and I can see no signs they are likely to do so in the near future. Rather unexpectedly they have managed to earn my lack of support.

Given the extraordinary state and behaviour of the current conservative party how difficult can it be to provide an effective opposition?
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It's actually really difficult as the electorate do not seem to care about things like honesty, competence etc. Its a funny situation, people are so giddy about being able to go to the pub that they don't really want to think about the current situation too deeply. I admit to being guilty of this myself at times, its a key to surviving with my mental health intact.

I think the key period will be from September, people will be disaffected about having to go back to the office, normality will not seem so nice.
 
Tony L said:
Initially fairly popular, but he got old real fast when the indecision fence came out. Most memorable quote: “Hello, thank you, goodbye” which was used repeatably to articulate Labour’s position on anything important (e.g. Brexit). I’d argue leading a party to defeat against both Theresa May and Boris Johnson was far from the best political CV, but Labour is gonna Labour.
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Yes, Jeremy was over-promoted. A poor leader who managed to alienate great swathes of the country. Labour are now dealing with the fall-out. Hopefully the party can recover from another self-destructive shift to the left, but maybe we are just witnessing the slow beginning of what might be a fast end.
 
Kirk said:
Yes, Jeremy was over-promoted. A poor leader who managed to alienate great swathes of the country. Labour are now dealing with the fall-out. Hopefully the party can recover from another self-destructive shift to the left, but maybe we are just witnessing the slow beginning of what might be a fast end.
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Corbyn was a truly hopeless leader leading a truly hopeless party, but the left-wing aspect (e.g. much of the 2017 manifesto) wasn’t the issue IMO. That was actually pretty decent and resonated with a substantial proportion of the country.

Labour moving back to being a centre-right/Tory-lite party is not going to achieve anything, as Starmer is proving beyond all doubt. They are once again well to the right of the SNP, Greens, Lib Dems and PC. They nod along with Tory authoritarianism, turn a blind eye to Tory corruption, tax-siphoning/theft and incompetence, have nothing whatsoever to say about electoral reform (which is unquestionably the elephant in the room), and seem to think shrouding themselves in flags and nationalism is an answer to a country currently spiralling down the global shitter wrapped in flags and nationalism. They are utterly useless. Utterly spineless.
 
Kirk said:
Yes, Jeremy was over-promoted. A poor leader who managed to alienate great swathes of the country. Labour are now dealing with the fall-out. Hopefully the party can recover from another self-destructive shift to the left, but maybe we are just witnessing the slow beginning of what might be a fast end.
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Corbyn again! Corbyn wasn’t promoted, he was elected and once elected he attracted great swathes rather than alienating them.

it wasn’t the shift to the left that was self destructive, it was clearly the attacks on Corbyn from within the Labour Party that took a popular movement that nearly won a General election and turned it into a massive self inflicted defeat two years later that proved self destructive.

The Labour Party has now undergone a massive shift to the right, a shift that has seen Rachael Reeves boast that she will be tougher than the Tories.

Why would anyone, let alone a moderate centrist, be happy with a party that explicitly wants to shift to the right of the Tories?
 
Kirk said:
maybe we are just witnessing the slow beginning of what might be a fast end.
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Could well be.

The shift from Labour to SNP in Scotland has probably removed any hope Labour have of gaining a majority. England has always had a right-of-centre electorate. Always will.

I fully expect there to be a Conservative government in power for the next couple of decades - either of the UK or what's left after Scotland leave. Depressing thought but I don't see how it can be any other way.
 
h.g. said:
It is hard to work out quite what is going on with the current leadership. I had expected the response to falling support over the last few months to be a clarification of their values as a centre left party but this hasn't happened nor does it look as if the reshuffle will be a move in that direction. Considering labour to be the only viable option to the social and economic harm being caused by the current government rests on them being seen as a viable governing party. The more the leadership demonstrates both a lack of competence and an inability to believably and coherently stand for what might be expected of a centre left party (or anything much for that matter) the harder it becomes for those inclinded to support a tradtional labour party to continue to give this leadership the benefit of the doubt. They have failed to get their act together and I can see no signs they are likely to do so in the near future. Rather unexpectedly they have managed to earn my lack of support.

Given the extraordinary state and behaviour of the current conservative party how difficult can it be to provide an effective opposition?
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Nothing surprises me about what the faction in charge are actually doing: all of it is completely consistent with past behaviour and with their core beliefs about governance, society, campaigning etc. That they haven't rethought or tempered any of these beliefs in the face of the march of history or of failure is also not surprising. They can't and they don't see any need to: as far as they're concerned they're winning, in that they've beaten the left - electoral success will follow once everyone understands that they've beaten the left.

What does surprise me is the absolute nature of their victory within the party. The grip they have on the leadership is astonishing.

You can't blame the electorate, as Woody does. That Labour seem to be bottoming out around the high 20s is actually remarkable, given how awful their performance has been, as well as the 6 years they've spent telling everyone how awful they are and how no one should vote for them. Anyone familiar with the fate of the Greek PASOK party might reasonably expect support to simply disappear.
 
notaclue said:
The Brexit-backing wally has spoken... To post a link to an article with a nice photo of himself smiling https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1408360825040080901
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Again the responses are astonishing. I’m far from knowledgeable about Twitter, I’ve no idea if it selected what responses to show based on an algorithm or whether that is everything posted, but the negativity is truly telling. Labour look to be dead in the water to me. I suspect they are going to get battered in Batley & Spen. My only hope is if they do lose they lose by far more than the vote taken by attention-seeking shit Galloway.
 
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