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Labour Leader: Keir Starmer IV

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Also an inescapable presence on political chat shows, given his own article in The Guardian, interviewed in the New Statesman (Blair on the cover). Also reports he directed the Hartlepool campaign and has been overseeing the response. Blair’s also been given very prominent platforms this week, including GMTV. Woody’s missed some important reanimation-related activity.
 
Chucking out some old stuff yesterday, I noticed a newspaper from 2009 that had been used to wrap up some glassware. On the front cover: Peter Mandelson, slagging off Gordon Brown's leadership. Plus ca change ...
 
I just thought you were a supporter of the move to the right under Starmer. Huge apologies if I’m wrong
Whatever....

I agree with most of what you say about Labour but as I don’t screech on about how gash the party is, I see that possibility hasn’t crossed your mind.
 
I would bet at least 50p that the Piers Morgan interview will turn out to be about as good a decision as the John Lewis wallpaper photoshoot.

Will probably cause Labour support to dip below 30%.

I'm sure Burnham, Nandy et al will be watching. ;)
 
I’ve absolutely no idea how you came to that conclusion from my post. No accusation of any kind was intended and I apologise unreservedly if such was taken. I was addressing the broad topic, not you at all.

Thanks Tony. I think maybe joint 'crossed wires' covers it.
 
I actually think Mullardman was merely contrasting how the two parties would have dealt with the situation. Labour has acted swiftly & suspended the person whereas the Tories would just just shrug their shoulders & move on. I actually find the left wing apologists just as bad in this instance.

It was a poor choice of words, just as RLB was ill-advised to re-tweet an article in which Maxine Peake used a borderline AS trope. These are professional politicians & they should know better.

That is exactly what I was trying to do.
 
Not commenting on your (I’m sure unimpeachable!) personal attitudes to race, but I think this is the stumbling block. It is for me, and I suspect Tony is catching the same issue.

Whatever a dictionary might say, in the context of a white person addressing a BAME person,m in this public way, the word deport absolutely does have racist overtones for many people if not, apparently, all.

To me, deport signifies not just an individual involuntarily leaving one place but also that the place the individual is moved to is somehow more ‘their’ place. The individual is characterised by the term deport as somehow an alien. There is a kind of relation to ‘go home’, or the state forcibly sending them back from whence they came.

Add to this the spin of it being a white person saying it to a non-white person, in a country where whites are the historic majority and people of Patel’s background have for decades been the target of explicitly racist attacks involving ‘go home’ sentiments, and the tweet become necessarily, irredeemably and unforgivably racist in tone, regardless of intent.

To be clear, I’m not trying to tell you you’re wrong or racist, I’m trying to highlight how other people apparently interpret the meaning of the word deport differently.

Personally I’m firmly in the camp I’ve described, and I suspect Tony may sympathise. Hence it’s a disagreement about the meaning of a word, not about whether you personally are a racist. It’s been an eye opener for me to see that others seem to read the word in a more neutral sense. And from the other side of the fence, hopefully this explains why some of us are so exercised about the tweet in question while others are less so.

Dave,
In response I can only say that I have never even considered the word 'deport' to have racist overtones. Of course it is true that there have been far too many questionable deportations of BAME individuals, which process might well be racist.. but I just don't see that conferring any intentional additional meaning to the word 'deport', or that using 'deport' is in any other than an accidental sense, similar to 'go home XXXXX' etc.

Many others, who would not be seen as BAME get deported.. as criminals etc..and it seems logical to me that they should be deported to their point of origin.

I can only explain the indignation in terms of a change of usage.. which has escaped my attention.

Far too many black people are killed in the USA by Police Officers.. but that does not confer racial overtones on the word 'kill'.

You may have been unfortunate enough to come across my numerous rants on the misuse of the term 'cover version' in relation to songs/tunes. In short, a 'cover' is essentially a 'copy', released at the same time as the original hit..to cash in on the popularity of the song. Thus, for e.g, Hendrix' version of All Along the Watchtower. was not a cover.. because it was not a copy.. but an interpretation... etc.. Me, playing my part in a recording of 'The Boys Are Back in Town' for charity a few years ago was not a cover. It was just a version.. and arguably a travesty..:) but not a 'cover'.

Yet... I have pretty much been forced to accept that there has been a change in usage of 'cover version' .. and I will certainly pay more attention in future to the context in which 'deport' is used. But for now.. to me its meaning remains the same. 'To forcibly remove'.
 
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It’s definitely worth the price of the popcorn to read some of the rubbish on this thread. So it’s not just the EDL, alt right, Tory scum etc etc who come out with these types of racist comments. Yet you lot try to justify what some dickhead trade unionist said about deporting a BAME politician.
 
It’s definitely worth the price of the popcorn to read some of the rubbish on this thread. So it’s not just the EDL, alt right, Tory scum etc etc who come out with these types of racist comments. Yet you lot try to justify what some dickhead trade unionist said about deporting a BAME politician.
I think it important to note that Beckett was making a comment about racist deportation policies which considering the timing, a dawn raid at Eid, has some substance. Yes, he should’ve considered his language about Patel, but his central point about racist immigration policy and in addition the deliberately provocative application of that policy is valid. The central point is that government’s hostile environment continues unabated and to focus on the clumsiness of a dickhead trade unionist is a distraction from what is a highly nasty, unfeeling, deliberately antagonistic government policy and a particular manifestation of it that is just plain wrong

Not sure from your post if Beckett is a dickhead for being clumsy or for being a trade unionist.
 
I think it important to note that Beckett was making a comment about racist deportation policies which considering the timing, a dawn raid at Eid, has some substance. Yes, he should’ve considered his language about Patel, but his central point about racist immigration policy and in addition the deliberately provocative application of that policy is valid. The central point is that government’s hostile environment continues unabated and to focus on the clumsiness of a dickhead trade unionist is a distraction from what is a highly nasty, unfeeling, deliberately antagonistic government policy and a particular manifestation of it that is just plain wrong

Not sure from your post if Beckett is a dickhead for being clumsy or for being a trade unionist.

What has a Muslim religious festival got to do with Sikhs being deported?
 
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