Labour at it again ..... anti-semitic just won't go away !

[HarryB]

It, along with a dumb gammon Brexit policy, is why Labour can’t get properly ahead of a truly horrendous Conservative/DUP coalition. Make no mistake this is a disaster for Labour statistically, and the more extreme Israel-hating supporters like Jez, MaxFlinn etc etc dig-in and do their thing the further the party will drop down in the polls. This behaviour is toxic and the whole thing needs knocking on the head with some real force.

Speaking as someone who at present wants to see a progressive coalition, not a Labour win, I find it all rather interesting from a detached viewpoint, but I suspect Labour are handling it so badly the Tories may well push ahead again despite the hopeless mess they are making of every aspect of government.

At its core the issue is but semantics, but it is being handled so spectacularly incompetently by the party that it has been allowed to remain a major news item for over two years since now. It takes some remarkably poor leadership decisions to achieve that!

PS Willsman is a total arse/gobshite who should be nowhere near any party. He needs sacking immediately.

Willsman is up for election to the NEC. He gets my support.

 

[HarryB]

I back Willsmen 100%. He said nothing other than what many/most Labour supporters and in fact the Labour leadership themselves strongly believe anyway. Those with a problem with it shouldn't be in Labour IMHO. A cabal of Tory lite Nu Labour types with Israeli sympathies are trying to destroy their own party rather than see it go back to true Labour ideals of socialism and "for the many not the few" and need deselecting.

Spot on again comrade. It's taken many years but we are getting there.

 

[Tony L]

Willsman is up for election to the NEC. He gets my support.

Don’t be surprised when Labour fail to get a majority at the next election!

 

[jackbarron]

I also support Willsman and don't think he should have apologized. It is obvious some members of Jewish groups are supporters of Trump, Indeed, just look at Netanyahu.

This non-stop slagging of Labour for being antisemitic is sad and completely orchestrated by right-wing Jewish groups who, funnily enough, include Trump supporters.

Labour have stupidly allowed this whole process to go on for a long time.

Jack

 

[Seanm]

It, along with a dumb gammon Brexit policy, is why Labour can’t get properly ahead of a truly horrendous Conservative/DUP coalition. Make no mistake this is a disaster for Labour statistically, and the more extreme Israel-hating supporters like Jez, MaxFlinn etc etc dig-in and do their thing the further the party will drop down in the polls. This behaviour is toxic and the whole thing needs knocking on the head with some real force.

Speaking as someone who at present wants to see a progressive coalition, not a Labour win, I find it all rather interesting from a detached viewpoint, but I suspect Labour are handling it so badly the Tories may well push ahead again despite the hopeless mess they are making of every aspect of government.

At its core the issue is but semantics, but it is being handled so spectacularly incompetently by the party that it has been allowed to remain a major news item for over two years since now. It takes some remarkably poor leadership decisions to achieve that!

PS Willsman is a total arse/gobshite who should be nowhere near any party. He needs sacking immediately.

There's no evidence that this is damaging Labour's electoral prospects so I don't know why you say this every time the story makes its weary rounds. The damage is more insidious: it makes it harder to address the issue of antisemitism, it makes it harder to achieve unity, and it takes up a lot of time, which is very precious, to no purpose. It's worse this time around because it's escalated so badly, and because the claims of antisemitism have tipped over into absurdity: calling Corbyn an existential threat to Jews is so patently ludicrous that people refuse to believe that antisemitism is a problem at all, and so it goes on. I wish Jez and Harry would consider what the likes of Jewdas have to say on the matter and calm down. Personally I don't think Willsman is fit to be on the NEC.

 

[Tony L]

There's no evidence that this is damaging Labour's electoral prospects so I don't know why you say this every time the story makes its weary rounds.

You have to be kidding! Have you seen how badly they are polling against such a hopelessly wrong-headed and destructive minority Conservative government? Sure, a lot will be the ‘gammon Brexit thing’, but this continual anti-Semitism story has to be having a huge impact too. We really have to start any discussion from the position of trying to explain why Labour are failing so badly against what should be an open goal, anything else is delusional IMHO. They are where they are, so why? How do they fix it?

PS I largely agree with the rest of your post.

 

[HarryB]

Don’t be surprised when Labour fail to get a majority at the next election!

I w

Don’t be surprised when Labour fail to get a majority at the next election!

I won't be surprised because Labour WILL get a majority. I'll then collect my winnings from the bookies.

But you know what, for arguments sake let's say your right and Labour don't get into government. That will mean people like you have given a thumbs up to almost a decade of Tory cuts and misery.

I'll be able to have a smug smile on my face while you and others can ponder WTF you've done.

Britain really is in the last chance saloon. Only a progressive socialist government can save us.

 

[Seanm]

You have to be kidding! Have you seen how badly they are polling against such a hopelessly wrong-headed and destructive minority Conservative government? Sure, a lot will be the ‘gammon Brexit thing’, but this continual anti-Semitism story has to be having a huge impact too. We really have to start any discussion from the position of trying to explain why Labour are failing so badly against what should be an open goal, anything else is delusional IMHO. They are where they are, so why?

There is no point in me trying to answer this, as you'll ignore it, and make the same claims in a months time.

 

[SteveS1]

How old are you Harry? (Decade will do). I don’t buy Labour’s failure to get a majority as being other people’s fault. The media hasn’t suddenly been stacked against, that is a given. The fact that they are not where they should be is purely down to trying to be all things to both sides of the most destructive political fissure in recent UK history. Just like May, at some point they have to decide which side to piss off and that will guarantee no overall majority. Stick your wad back in your pocket.

 

[Tony L]

There is no point in me trying to answer this, as you'll ignore it, and make the same claims in a months time.

Every month Labour fails to move forward in the polls despite the national disaster occuring on the opposite benches and remains up to its neck in endless accusations of anti-Semitism etc the question needs re-asking! No progress has been made. They are just hopeless!

 

[Arkless Electronics]

It, along with a dumb gammon Brexit policy, is why Labour can’t get properly ahead of a truly horrendous Conservative/DUP coalition. Make no mistake this is a disaster for Labour statistically, and the more extreme Israel-hating supporters like Jez, MaxFlinn etc etc dig-in and do their thing the further the party will drop down in the polls. This behaviour is toxic and the whole thing needs knocking on the head with some real force.

Speaking as someone who at present wants to see a progressive coalition, not a Labour win, I find it all rather interesting from a detached viewpoint, but I suspect Labour are handling it so badly the Tories may well push ahead again despite the hopeless mess they are making of every aspect of government.

At its core the issue is but semantics, but it is being handled so spectacularly incompetently by the party that it has been allowed to remain a major news item for over two years since now. It takes some remarkably poor leadership decisions to achieve that!

PS Willsman is a total arse/gobshite who should be nowhere near any party. He needs sacking immediately.

You've posted stuff as anti Israel as anyone here on many occasions Tony! Make your mind up...

Personally I couldn't give a toss if they are Jewish, Mormon or sun worshippers.... nor do I think it's relevant. Obviously the pro Israel lobby would sell their parents to paint any anti Israel rhetoric as anti semitic. Their behaviour and policies have no place in a civilised world.

 

[Tony L]

You've posted stuff as anti Israel as anyone here on many occasions Tony! Make your mind up...

To my recollection I have not posted anything that could in any way be construed as anti-Semitic, i.e. likening Israel to Nazis etc. I am horrified by Israel’s countless breaches of UN resolutions etc and by the ongoing illegal land-grab via settlements etc, but I also grasp that it is a lone democracy surrounded by vile dictatorships and the most extreme religious fundamentalism on all sides. The whole middle east is a mess and if I was a lone democracy surrounded by nations that murdered gays, denied women even basic human rights etc etc then I’d maybe be a little over the top at defending what is in reality a tiny slither of land. As such I’m kind of outside of this as I detest authoritarianism and aggression of all kinds, yet the whole area is just so far from peace I’ve no idea where it would even start. I certainly have no dog in the race. To be honest the whole thing is probably in deadlock until humans eventually grow out of religion, and as such I want nothing to do with it until that point. Labour need to drop it big time as there is nothing we can do about it, and the mess of Brexit etc is of far more immediate concern to us.

 

[matthewr]

Labour, and Corbyn's Labour in particular, poll much better during an actual election when the special media rules apply and people generally get to hear what policies they propose and by and large like them.

 

[maxflinn]

I am horrified by Israel’s countless breaches of UN resolutions etc and by the ongoing illegal land-grab via settlements etc, but....

....every time you say this you go on to apologise for these crimes.

So you're not one bit horrified. You're an Israeli apologist just like Boris Johnson, Rees Mogg, Farage, Douglas Murray, Tommy Robinson etc.

Mr centrist...

 

[Tony L]

....every time you say this you go on to apologise for these crimes.

So you're not one bit horrified. You're an Israeli apologist just like Boris Johnson, Rees Mogg, Farage, Douglas Murray, Tommy Robinson etc.

Mr centrist...

LOL. I’m just not a radicalised dictatorship-fanboi like you! As I say I have no dog in the race; I support neither the right-wing authoritarianism of Israel, nor the religious dictatorships of the surrounding areas. I want no side in this one.

 

[wylton]

To be honest the whole thing is probably in deadlock until humans eventually grow out of religion..

That's never going to happen though is it? Certainly no sign of it, even remotely at the moment.

 

[matthewr]

There is still a problem with antisemitism in the Labour Party, it still isn't systemic, it's still being instrumentalised by the right, Labour are still making bad moves that allow it to be instrumentalised. The IHRA thing was actually an attempt to make progress (there is a genuine need to provide a framework for different voices here) but accusations of bad faith on all sides, some of them deserved, have made it another media spectacle and factional ****-show. It's tragic because especially given the rise of the far right there is a real need to straighten this out and it could actually be something that progressive voices from different traditions unite around.

I agree with this. Labour and the left have long had a problem with AS attaching itself to the edges of the party particularly around policy on Israel. But it's not like Labour policy if full of anti semitic dog whistles and dehumanising language aimed at Jews. They could do without shooting themselves in the foot quite so much with NEC candidates ranting about secret plots though.

I would also add that Labour's problem with antisemitism is far smaller than the Tory party's problem with Islamophobia.

 

[droodzilla]

it is perhaps an important topic, but not an impottant issue given that it has been largely fabricated out of almost nothing.

I meant the issue of anti-semitism (and racism generally), in the context of the growth of the far-right.

 

[maxflinn]

LOL. I’m just not a radicalised dictatorship-fanboi like you! As I say I have no dog in the race; I support neither the right-wing authoritarianism of Israel, nor the religious dictatorship of Palestine or surrounding areas. I want no side in this one.

Re-read the post of yours that I quoted. You apologised for Israel's crimes. Plain and simple.

Here it is:

To my recollection I have not posted anything that could in any way be construed as anti-Semitic, i.e. likening Israel to Nazis etc. I am horrified by Israel’s countless breaches of UN resolutions etc and by the ongoing illegal land-grab via settlements etc, but I also grasp that it is a lone democracy surrounded by vile dictatorships and the most extreme religious fundamentalism on all sides. The whole middle east is a mess and if I was a lone democracy surrounded by nations that murdered gays, denied women even basic human rights etc etc then I’d maybe be a little over the top at defending what is in reality a tiny slither of land

A little over the top, eh...

Also, it may have escaped your attention but many members of your forum are opposed to Israel's crimes. Several of them have posted on this thread. Are they all 'radicalised'?

No, because opposing such criminality including apartheid is not radical. Fighting for socially responsible governance (ie, Corbyn's Labour) is not radical. Opposing the wars so loved by the leaders and powerful friends of Israel (like Netanyahu, Blair, Murdoch, the neocons etc) is not radical.

These things are only radical in the minds of self-declared 'centrists' like yourself, who passionately believe in nothing.

 

[Still]

The Israeli state is an apartheid regime of child murdering war mongers. There you go.

Holy shᴉtburger and beans!
I had no idea it could be so ... professional.
Arkless, merlin et al take note.

Lest ye forget ...

big up kendo