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Kitchen cabinets

It’s very valuable advice because it’s the exact opposite of what the Howden’s salesman suggested: he said that chipboard absorbs more moisture than MDF so MDF is better. I said that I’ve had chipboard cupboard doors for 20 years and I’m really pleased with the wear, and he just shrugged his shoulders.
 
MDF is a real can of worms. If it's PROPERLY sealed, and PROPERLY painted or laminated, it's great. BUT - in a kitchen where water can run down doors (or condensation), the bottom of the doors WILL blow if MDF with very little exposure.

MFC (Melamine faced chipboard) is usually totally sealed to prevent moisture ingress. It's worth taking a look at the door "in the flesh".

Incidentally - have you had a look at kutchenhaus? - they're a german supplier, their discounts used to be mega.
 
yes howdens are happy for you to visit and look at their stuff but you have to order it through a tradesman as far as i know . I have worked with a kitchen fitter on kitchens so this is my experience
 
GruntPuppy said:
Incidentally - have you had a look at kutchenhaus? - they're a german supplier, their discounts used to be mega.
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I want to keep the existing Howdens carcasses and I just assumed that only Howdens panels would fit.

Thanks for the advice re MDF and chipboard, much appreciated.
 
Mike Reed said:
Don't forget Howdens' ranges. I had one installed 4 years ago and it's still pristine, despite being in a family rental flat. Not pricey, either. Should mention here that my son-in-law is a designer for them, though !;)

You could cobble together a few such designers and call it a cabinet meeting.
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I have accounts at both Magnet and Howdens. A recent kitchen with similar quality assembled cabinets, supply only, Magnet £2400, Howdens £1600. Magnet are more retail focused with flash showrooms and it gives a better idea of what a finished kitchen will look like. I prefer the Howdens trade model, the designer was very helpful with after sales fitting advice.
 
GruntPuppy said:
MDF is a real can of worms. If it's PROPERLY sealed, and PROPERLY painted or laminated, it's great. BUT - in a kitchen where water can run down doors (or condensation), the bottom of the doors WILL blow if MDF with very little exposure.

MFC (Melamine faced chipboard) is usually totally sealed to prevent moisture ingress. It's worth taking a look at the door "in the flesh".

Incidentally - have you had a look at kutchenhaus? - they're a german supplier, their discounts used to be mega.
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What you say is true but a bigger problem is durability of many of the tops which are basically MDF with a very thin wrap round plastic. Our kitchen is 20 years old with Formica which is quite thick and durable.
 
Yes, worktops are a whole new can of worms. The butting together is a particular point for concern, regardless of material/covering. The last kitchen I had a hand in, we used a template to make a curved cut to disguise the join (made it much more difficult to see where they butted together) and the fitter used some special glue/sealer in the joint itself to give some moisture protection. Damned if I can remember what it was called though :(
 
GruntPuppy said:
Yes, worktops are a whole new can of worms.
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They're not too bad, and, i.m.o., very similar to the old formica and with similar veneer thickness. Right angle joins are curved with a special lathe cum template, and, yes, over time these joins can bubble up a bit. Ours is now 15 years old and although the surface is well and truly 'flattened' in appearance, it's still very functional, with no nasty cracks.

The one I had installed from Howdens 4 years ago in a flat is still pristine after three years of family heavy use (+ 1 year little use). Having a back-stand is a good option (with tiling above).
 
mandryka said:
So chipboard is more moisture tolerant than MDF?
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not in.my experience. Previous kitchen, I made all MDF doors, lasted 10 years with out any sign of blowing in a steamy kitchen. Replaced with Wickes chipboard carcasses with MDF real wood veneered doors, no.sign of blowing after 12 years. Work surfaces (apart from the SS ones) are cheapo chipboard covered with plastic, no sign of blowing....all fitted myself. We changed the work surfaces about 5 years ago as we fancied a change in aesthetic.
 
Interesting thread as I’m embarking on a new, island only kitchen.

I really would like a copper island top - has anyone got any experience? (Maybe the SS kitchen installer??)

Doing a very modern kitchen, So just floor to ceiling cupboards on one 12ft wall with oven, microwave and most storage here, tambour or pocket doors hiding an appliance cupboard. And then just an island 3m x 1.5m with sink and hob on one side with 5 stools on the other. No run of base cupboards at all, just the one big island and flat walls.
 
Rug Doc said:
Interesting thread as I’m embarking on a new, island only kitchen.

I really would like a copper island top - has anyone got any experience? (Maybe the SS kitchen installer??)

Doing a very modern kitchen, So just floor to ceiling cupboards on one 12ft wall with oven, microwave and most storage here, tambour or pocket doors hiding an appliance cupboard. And then just an island 3m x 1.5m with sink and hob on one side with 5 stools on the other. No run of base cupboards at all, just the one big island and flat walls.
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Sorry, aside from plumbing, I've never done anything with copper. I

have done a resin 'penny' floor which you can do as a worktop if that counts as copper? :D
 
Copper, aside from the expense, is a soft metal that will mark and tarnish. If you like this and regard it as gaining patina over time, then fine. If not then every scratch, spilt drink, every salt water spill, will need polishing out and relacquering.
 
I looked at polished copper for a draining board, quite labour intensive to keep clean, you'd have to be obsessive about using chopping boards and it will discolour around a sink.

It's quite expensive too. Would look lovely if you have a good cleaner!
 
I once nearly bought a zinc worktop, Conran Shop on Fulham Road were selling them and I loved the way that the patina forms. One problem is that the patina may not form evenly.
 
That's the problem with patina. It depends on traffic. French cafes were traditionally "un zinc" for a counter, but of course they accepted the wear near the till and the shiny patch where Henri rests his elbow as he sits with his dog every afternoon.
 
mandryka said:
And panels close enough to the cooker to catch steam.
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That's where mine is going. It came with the house, probably 5-10 years old when I arrived and I've been in 5 years. The cooker hood is MDF, the moisture has caused the vinyl face to come off, I've stuck it back on. The carcass over the cooker and kettle is chip and is swelling on the corner exposed to the steam. One day that will start to delaminate. The worktop has a joint in it, a good one, properly cut, but it's below the kettle. This is swelling and lifting a bit because of various spills.
 
mandryka said:
The predictable problem areas with kitchens are, I think, the vertical end panels of base units which touch the floor -- and so get wet every time the floor is mopped. And panels close enough to the cooker to catch steam.

Is there anything which you can do at the design and build stage to help stop these problems happening?

All I could see on line was this

https://www.mybuilder.com/questions/v/27545/how-to-protect-end-panel-at-floor-level
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we did exactly that in the link.
 
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