"I'm not a wishy-washy Tory..."

[Mullardman]

He belongs to the generation brought up on Biggles and Co running half the world and not seeing anything wrong with there being a Golliwog on their marmalade jar label. And refuses to change. And is honest enough to admit it, unlike most slimy politicians in the Westminster/Islington bubble who have to consult a pollster before answering a question about tomorrows weather.

I loved Biggles as a kid. I saw nothing wrong with Golliwogs, or the Black and White Minstrel Show.

I learned.

 

[richardg]

Quite right, trouble is that he may well be cleverer than the average voter who at least can be bothered to vote and rather clever than those who do not bother to vote.

He was clearly much sharper than the Radio 4 interviewer, who was left stuttering for a followup question on three occasions.

I wish he had picked him up on his claim to be a libertarian though.

 

[cooky1257]

Would it have been racist if he'd instead named the countries he was using a rather outdated generic all encompassing term for? What's wrong with bongos anyway-I'm rather fond of them?

 

[Mescalito]

Because a high proportion of people from the Indian sub-continent are not involved in organised child abuse.

But it would appear that, in the UK, the proportion of the population of that ethnicity that is involved in organised child abuse is considerably greater than the population at large. That is what the statistics tell us. A very inconvenient truth as far as the left is concerned.



Chris

 

[Mescalito]

He wants to lump a number of countries and races together and imply they are unsophisticated and primitive and it's clearly offensive on a number of levels.

But he has apologised and we can move on and the world will just dimly remember him as that bongo-bongo bloke.

There ARE a lot of countries that are unsophisticated & primitive. I'll even name some. Equatorial Guinea, Congo Democratic Republic, Liberia. Acknowledging that fact is not racist.

Chris

 

[Anex]

But it would appear that, in the UK, the proportion of the population of that ethnicity that is involved in organised child abuse is considerably greater than the population at large. That is what the statistics tell us. A very inconvenient truth as far as the left is concerned.



Chris

Do you have any stats to back up this 'inconvenient truth' or is it something which happened to stick in your head based on news reports and perhaps underlying prejudice?

The Beeb seemed to do fairly well as far as organised child abuse goes. Mostly white guys.

 

[Rasher]

Hipsters live in Hoxton/Shoreditch and wouldn't be seen dead with Lentils or The Guardian.

Islington is full of middle class Boden wearing types who are more interested in Otto Lenghi and artisnal bread than wholefood (which is more Hackey). Assuming we are talking about the tiny bit of N1 around Upper St. and not the majority of it which is failing schools and social problems.

If we are talking about 'Bongo-Bongo Land' being a derogatory remark, then explain why this post isn't a derogatory generalising snipe of exactly the same type.
I suspect from your last sentence that your own prejudice is Class.

I don't care myself, and I have my own opinionated views that I am, quite rightly, called up on. I just don't see why you, in particular, being the token pfm human rights campaigner, should get away with it.

(not intended as anything more than a friendly nudge)

 

[Mescalito]

From the point of view of anyone with any decency who realises we no longer have 'the colonies', if you like. He is perfectly entitled to his views, but they still make him an idiot.

Both you and Jo seem keen to make this some kind of freedom of speech issue, presumably because neither of you really comprehends why what was said is offensive. It's very sad to see people sticking up for racism and before the inevitable response to that, remember that no one has said he shouldn't express what ever views he wants to. Personally I'm glad he said it, another UKIP moron bites the dust.

I agree it is an offensive racist phrase. But it is not against the law to offend people. Nobody has the right not to be offended or upset.

I find many of the leftist views espoused on here offensive. But I will defend the right to hold those views, and will not call the people who hold such views idiotic. Misguided & wrongheaded, maybe, but not idiotic.

You, however, are so convinced of the manifest rectitude of your world view that you simply cannot conceive of anybody holding opposing views as being anything other than an idiot.

Arrogance of the first water.

Chris

And let's see if he "bites the dust" in the forthcoming european elections, shall we?

 

[Greg]

Spot the fellow who has never been to Portland, Oregon.

Kasp, as a youngster I always fancied moving to Portland, is this representative?

 

[Greg]

I agree it is an offensive racist phrase. But it is not against the law to offend people. Nobody has the right not to be offended or upset.

I find many of the leftist views espoused on here offensive. But I will defend the right to hold those views, and will not call the people who hold such views idiotic. Misguided & wrongheaded, maybe, but not idiotic.

You, however, are so convinced of the manifest rectitude of your world view that you simply cannot conceive of anybody holding opposing views as being anything other than an idiot.

Arrogance of the first water.

Chris

And let's see if he "bites the dust" in the forthcoming european elections, shall we?

Chris, in observing your quest to wind up "lefties" I often feel like you're wrestling with your own imagination, as opposed to real people with actual opinions.

 

[russel]

I've always thought it is mildly patronising/borderline xenophobic to call "World Music" "World Music" rather than "Third World Music", which is what it is. Calling it "Third World Music" must grate with the Guardian-reading, hipster lentil-eaters.

Here is the WOMAD lineup, which sells its self on being a world music festival, http://womad.co.uk/lineup/

I know the Red Hot Chilli Pipers are there from Scotland but there are other countries there that are not Third world, so world music does seem to be the correct term.

I did read "The Guardian" there but ate no lentils and am far too old to be a "hipster".

 

[deanf]

Would it have been racist if he'd instead named the countries he was using a rather outdated generic all encompassing term for? What's wrong with bongos anyway-I'm rather fond of them?

Language is a powerful thing, and what he was doing was objectifying people in an attempt to emphasise his superiority and power.

Bongos are really good. So is "chicken fried rice", but I know someone who calls the Chinese that, and that's not good.

I hope none of this sounds like I'm getting on my high horse. We all make mistakes and the best thing the MEP could do is apologise. Personally I just think his ignorance negates any decent argument he can come up with in the future i.e. he brings too much to the table. And it's good to expose his party for what they are.

 

[Martin D]

Massive fuss over the term Bongo Bongo Land. Meanwhile, two blokes are physically attacked while charity running through a 'Muslim area'.

mmmmmm

 

[Anex]

I agree it is an offensive racist phrase. But it is not against the law to offend people. Nobody has the right not to be offended or upset.

I find many of the leftist views espoused on here offensive. But I will defend the right to hold those views, and will not call the people who hold such views idiotic. Misguided & wrongheaded, maybe, but not idiotic.

You, however, are so convinced of the manifest rectitude of your world view that you simply cannot conceive of anybody holding opposing views as being anything other than an idiot.

Arrogance of the first water.

Chris

And let's see if he "bites the dust" in the forthcoming european elections, shall we?

Ah this post again. You seem to spend a lot of time trying to make out that I'm opposed to freedom of speech without any actual evidence of that. Being a proper libertarian, you'll find I haven't suggested it is or should be illegal for him to talk about 'bongo bongo land' or anything else he chooses, so what exactly is your point?

And I think you'll find I'm far more capable of awareness of other people's world views than you are. You seem to be struggling very hard to essentially defend an openly racist person for no apparent reason.

BTW, you find my starting point of seeing everyone as equal until they show otherwise to be wrong headed? Your posts in this thread suggest your starting point for viewing people is closer to that of Bloom's in which he sets himself above others and works from there. It's difficult to conceive of anything more arrogant than that.

 

[Mescalito]

Chris, in observing your quest to wind up "lefties" I often feel like you're wrestling with your own imagination, as opposed to real people with actual opinions.

Greg,

When Anex describes someone else as an idiot because the views he espouses do not accord with his own, I am not wrestling with my imagination, I am wrestling with a biggot.

Chris

 

[matthewr]

A very inconvenient truth as far as the left is concerned.

Only in the addled brains of people who care more about making specious points about race than child abuse.

 

[matthewr]

If we are talking about 'Bongo-Bongo Land' being a derogatory remark, then explain why this post isn't a derogatory generalising snipe of exactly the same type.
I suspect from your last sentence that your own prejudice is Class.

Because saying someone likes Boden clothes or expensive bread doesn't have the well established derogatory overtones of "bongo bongo land"

 

[Greg]

Greg,

When Anex describes someone else as an idiot because the views he espouses do not accord with his own, I am not wrestling with my imagination, I am wrestling with a biggot.

Chris

but this is the mistake I'm referring to. You have entirely jumped to the conclusion that that is what Anex is doing because of your predisposition to seeing reds under the bed.

My view is Anex sees him as an idiot because only an idiot would undermine his own valid opinions - ones noone has suggested he should be restricted from expressing - with a childish, pejorative phrase such as "bongo bongo land".

 

[Mescalito]

but this is the mistake I'm referring to. You have entirely jumped to the conclusion that that is what Anex is doing because of your predisposition to seeing reds under the bed.

I do not actually have such a predisposition, Greg. In PFM off topic room, there is no way that a bed big enough could be found.

Chris

 

[Mescalito]

You should be thanking me for not pointing out what your support of overt racism says about you.

Sometimes stopping to see what people think, whether in a particular social circle or as part of a wider sampling is a good thing, particularly if that causes one to question one's own position.
Not that Bloom is capable of that sort of self-reflection of course. He couldn't grasp the concept that he might be wrong.

Neither can you, Anex. You know to the core of your being that god is on your side in your views (metaphorically speaking). I have no doubt that Bloom thinks the same way about his views.

Chris