Hi Fi Wigwam
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ratcatcher
pfm Member
So how come Tony and PFM manage to survive without subs? Its not a question of what individuals can afford, more what they're prepared to pay.
Also, i dont think anybody has ever questioned the amount of time, grief, stress, blood sweat and tears that James has put into the Wam, but what many are pointing out here is that if it was becoming too much for him then he maybe should have seeked help/support before spitting the dummy.
Tell you what, when i win the euromillions next week, I'll retire and run the forum myself.
aquapiranha
pfm Member
WW had it's place, but it is not PFM just as it is not AOS. Some of the members of the old WW may be thinking they can just move over to another forum but they will be in for a bit of a shock. While both of these forums encourage healthy debate, they will not tolerate the pack mentality that flourished on WW, with several prolific and verbose members running amok.
Personally I stopped posting on the Wam a couple of years ago because of this, and trying to turn an existing forum into Wam Mk 2 would be met with much resistance. I do believe however that some of the mods will be working to get WW back up and running again but I doubt they will do it without introducing some major changes to the way it is run, preventing the same thing happening again. I do not blame James in the slightest, it is after all his forum to do with what he pleases.
A comment was made that PFM, WW and AOS are all the same thing, well let me tell you they are not, and at AOS especially, the over inflated egos and instant sumary justice dealt out by certain members of WW if you did not agree with them simply would not be allowed on AOS or on here and the egos won't like that, they want somewhere they can push people around from behind the safety of a keyboard.
Good luck to whomever re-invents the Wam, I wish them luck.
Personally I stopped posting on the Wam a couple of years ago because of this, and trying to turn an existing forum into Wam Mk 2 would be met with much resistance. I do believe however that some of the mods will be working to get WW back up and running again but I doubt they will do it without introducing some major changes to the way it is run, preventing the same thing happening again. I do not blame James in the slightest, it is after all his forum to do with what he pleases.
A comment was made that PFM, WW and AOS are all the same thing, well let me tell you they are not, and at AOS especially, the over inflated egos and instant sumary justice dealt out by certain members of WW if you did not agree with them simply would not be allowed on AOS or on here and the egos won't like that, they want somewhere they can push people around from behind the safety of a keyboard.
Good luck to whomever re-invents the Wam, I wish them luck.
Joe Hutch
Mate of the bloke
AIUI, a combination of trade members' fees, income from click-through links, and donations. Also, PFM the forum is symbiotically linked to PFM the record shop; the two supporting each other. On the wider point, I guess that if individuals aren't prepared to pay for HFWW they can either a) do without it or b) provide it for free themselves.
you may be able to get cached copies ..via the way back machine or similar archieve web sites
The sheer volume of membership and traffic also has/had an enormous impact, primarily in terms of hosting space and bandwidth. The latter in particular is an issue that is not solved cheaply.
As for the forum itself, constant carping on about what was wrong with it is hardly likely to motivate anyone to reinvent it. Best that we let the dust settle eh?
As for the forum itself, constant carping on about what was wrong with it is hardly likely to motivate anyone to reinvent it. Best that we let the dust settle eh?
HiFiWigWam
pfm Member
Poor Tony, he now has you to deal with.
Gent's reading this thread this morning and the emails you have all sent really has been quite emotional frankly. That you all support and understand my decision is really quite fantastic.
I know that several people have unfinished business on the classifieds. I will open the forum this evening for the whole evening so that people can get messages to and from each other. Include phone numbers and email addresses in your PMs, as the PM content is also sent via email. That way you should all be able to conclude your business.
Having had a really nice day yesterday, playing cricket in the Sunshine and enjoying a few beers with friends and now having slept on this decision, I feel I need to put a time limit on what is going to happen. I am going to be working away for much of this week, and have a busy weekend ahead, so I think next Monday will be when you hear from me again. I need time to consider what to do.
As I own the commercial rights to the Scalford show I guess many of you will be worried about that. I really want to make sure Scalford happens next year. I am sure some of you will be keen to make it happen, rest assured if the forum closes permanently I think we can still make Scalford go ahead.
I think leaving the forum closed for a while for us all to have a good think, without the distractions of forum life will be a good thing for everyone.
As some have mentioned here, it's boisterous nature has been both the secret of it's success and the reason for it's downfall.
There have been plenty of good ideas here as to how we can move on, I will take them all on board and give them due consideration. Deep down I don't want the wigwam to die like this, but something had to give and for it to continue some things will need to change. What and how, I am not sure yet. But I am thinking about it carefully and I will be missing it's social side as much as the rest of you over the coming days..
We do have a Face book community at https://www.facebook.com/pages/HiFiWigwam/180770915279077
And I am sure the polite and courteous ones of you will be welcome here.
I'll speak to you soon. Phoenix rising from the ashes emoticon anyone? Let's hope so.
Thanks chaps. Seriously restored my faith in the Interwebs.
James.
Hoopsontoast
pfm Member
i_should_coco
I am weasel
Ah, how nice to see that the high and mighty holier-than-thou lot have plucked up the courage to finally raise their poor little heads above the parapet to start the back biting and recrimination from the safety of another forum.
Even though the dust has not yet hit the floor, I see that the vultures are circling to figure out how to move in on Scalford. Funny how only the 'wam for all it's faults was able to muster enough guts to go ahead and do it.
To call for the wigwam to be changed completely misses the point. As James said many times, it is what it is. I hope it comes back, but better that it dies than becomes a shadow of it's former self.
I find the hypocrisy being expressed here by those with an axe to grind using this as an opportunity to air their dirty laundry far more offensive than a bit of swearing ever was.
Even though the dust has not yet hit the floor, I see that the vultures are circling to figure out how to move in on Scalford. Funny how only the 'wam for all it's faults was able to muster enough guts to go ahead and do it.
To call for the wigwam to be changed completely misses the point. As James said many times, it is what it is. I hope it comes back, but better that it dies than becomes a shadow of it's former self.
I find the hypocrisy being expressed here by those with an axe to grind using this as an opportunity to air their dirty laundry far more offensive than a bit of swearing ever was.
moreblackdiscs
Active Member
personally, having read all this over again, it seems to me that
well it seems to me that I'd like some of my pals back please.
and some I wouldn't.
the poster formerly known as rockmeister.
well it seems to me that I'd like some of my pals back please.
and some I wouldn't.
the poster formerly known as rockmeister.
Tony L
Administrator
Good to see you here James, and the above is truly excellent news.
Just to put it on the record: regardless of what decision you reach with the Wigwam forum (and I sincerely hope you find a way to reopen it, it is just too good to turn off IMO) rest assured pfm will continue to support / publicise this event in any way we can as long as it continues to be called the HiFiWigwam Show and you remain at the helm. It is far too important an event to be lost, altered or tainted IMO.
Tony.
BARNEYS DAD
pfm Member
Poor Tony, he now has you to deal with.
Gent's reading this thread this morning and the emails you have all sent really has been quite emotional frankly. That you all support and understand my decision is really quite fantastic.
I know that several people have unfinished business on the classifieds. I will open the forum this evening for the whole evening so that people can get messages to and from each other. Include phone numbers and email addresses in your PMs, as the PM content is also sent via email. That way you should all be able to conclude your business.
Having had a really nice day yesterday, playing cricket in the Sunshine and enjoying a few beers with friends and now having slept on this decision, I feel I need to put a time limit on what is going to happen. I am going to be working away for much of this week, and have a busy weekend ahead, so I think next Monday will be when you hear from me again. I need time to consider what to do.
As I own the commercial rights to the Scalford show I guess many of you will be worried about that. I really want to make sure Scalford happens next year. I am sure some of you will be keen to make it happen, rest assured if the forum closes permanently I think we can still make Scalford go ahead.
I think leaving the forum closed for a while for us all to have a good think, without the distractions of forum life will be a good thing for everyone.
As some have mentioned here, it's boisterous nature has been both the secret of it's success and the reason for it's downfall.
There have been plenty of good ideas here as to how we can move on, I will take them all on board and give them due consideration. Deep down I don't want the wigwam to die like this, but something had to give and for it to continue some things will need to change. What and how, I am not sure yet. But I am thinking about it carefully and I will be missing it's social side as much as the rest of you over the coming days..
We do have a Face book community at https://www.facebook.com/pages/HiFiWigwam/180770915279077
And I am sure the polite and courteous ones of you will be welcome here.
I'll speak to you soon. Phoenix rising from the ashes emoticon anyone? Let's hope so.
Thanks chaps. Seriously restored my faith in the Interwebs.
James.
Thanks James
Are you able to give an opening & closing time?
This is so like your favourite local has decided to close down.
Anyway, I'll be there for a few sundowners, a last game of darts & swop emails/phone nos. etc.
No rowdiness, pinching the barmaids bum or insulting the landlord please.
Tigerjones
Bagpuss
I never cease to be amazed at how serious and angry people get when discussing hifi. Sounds like James had had a neck full and had to put up with a lot of shit. Can't blame him for jacking it in, shame for all those who posted there, shame on all those that made him close it down.
unclepuncle
pfm Member
Zerogain was the first forum I joined (2004ish) and was an excellent vibrant forum for many years but then after a few heated debates and subsequent bannings (mainly from cables of course
) it tried to change and was never the same again - dying a slow death until AudioSmile took over - it still has a fraction of the traffic that WW and PFM have.- Status