Graham Audio is making BOTH an LS3/5 and an LS3/5a

[Panderos]

This week, ust took delivery of the new (Graham) Chartwell LS3/5. Very beguiling sound. Too early to compare with my 11 year old Harbeth P3ES2s. But perhaps the 3/5s are a little more 'studio', seeing more into the mix, even if it is studio noise from close miking etc. The effect seems a little more raw and immediate, not unpleasing. Not sure there will be any 'better' here. Stockist suggested the 3/5s have a little more 'spice' by comparison to Harbs - I can't improve on that.

Would be fun to compare with new Swisstone, and upcoming Stirling V3. As for the pending Falcon limited edition, at upwards of £6000; I'm not likely to hear those except maybe at a CES...

 

[Martyn Miles]

I do wonder how big the market is for these expensive speakers.
The Falcon ‘Kingswood Warren’ LS3/5as must be well out of most people’s budget for speakers.
Jerry Bloomfield told me a couple of years ago the Hi Fi market in the UK was virtually dead, and
the great majority of Falcon’s LS3/5as went overseas.
It would be interesting to know the state of the UK’s audio market.

 

[Panderos]

I do wonder how big the market is for these expensive speakers.
The Falcon ‘Kingswood Warren’ LS3/5as must be well out of most people’s budget for speakers.
Jerry Bloomfield told me a couple of years ago the Hi Fi market in the UK was virtually dead, and
the great majority of Falcon’s LS3/5as went overseas.
It would be interesting to know the state of the UK’s audio market.

It's a good question, and one that goes beyond the UK and the market for replicas of BBC LS3/5a etc. The number of entrepreneurs elsewhere in Europe and North America willing to invest in the next best little two-way from budget efforts on up is astonishing - they just keep on coming.
You can see the sense of tapping into BBC mystique in the Far East just to stand out from the crowd...

 

[TimF]

Strangely enough, or not, they would probably be able to sell the more expensive models easier than the standard ones, after all, audiophiles and their strange ways, more pricey has to be better/good, right? Especially over here in the US, it will be those that have the money to toss around anyway that would be buying them.

 

[Nick_G]

Reassuringly Expensive

 

[Martyn Miles]

Reassuringly Expensive

I seem to recall that line used in an ad. for
something famous...

 

[Andimac]

I suppose it does seem a little curious that you have to part with nearly £2,500 for a pair of early serial number Chartwell LS3/5a currently on eBay, against nearly £1,900 for a brand new pair, using contemporary technology, with a five-year guarantee from Graham Audio. But this is the Rolex principle in action: create enough mystique and demand, and up go the prices.

 

[Martyn Miles]

I suppose it does seem a little curious that you have to part with nearly £2,500 for a pair of early serial number Chartwell LS3/5a currently on eBay, against nearly £1,900 for a brand new pair, using contemporary technology, with a five-year guarantee from Graham Audio. But this is the Rolex principle in action: create enough mystique and demand, and up go the prices.

No way would I part with £2,500 for a pair of old speakers that must be well out of spec.

 

[Andimac]

If my experience is anything to go by, the prices for vintage LS3/5as on eBay and elsewhere have made me rethink the wisdom of buying ‘old’ speakers and forced me to consider the contemporary and usually less expensive alternatives. The debate around pricing and spec can only be a good thing for the Stirling Broacdasts, Graham Audios of this world and is certainly keeping a 40-year old speaker in the consciousness of music lovers and audiophiles.

 

[eka]

I made a comparison of two LS3/5a-inspired models, Proac Tablette 10 and Celef LS8 just yesterday, and thought some might find it interesting, so here goes:

I used a Devialet 220pro to drive the speakers that were located in the middle of a quite a big room, with about 4 m space behind them. I don't imagine anyone actually positioning either of these speakers that way for other than testing purposes, but the sound is comparatively free of wall reflections in this way, and gives a pretty good picture of their resolution and tonal capabilities. The LS8 is rated 2dB less sensitive than the Tab 10 so I adjusted the volume accordingly. Changing the speakers always took a couple of minutes.

I went through the following tracks:

Dire Straits: Telegraph Road
Nick Drake: Black Eyed Dog
Gallus: Mirabile Mysterium (Huelgas Ensemble)
Brahms: String Quartett C minor, 1st movement (Emerson Quartet)
Sibelius: Symphony 4 (Oramo, Birmingham SO)

It's maybe a bit unfair to compare a £2500 speaker with a £1000 one so one expects a marked difference. Well, long story short: whereas the Tab10 is a great little speaker and all-round performer as such, the LS8 is in a different league regarding tonality, microdynamics (texture) and overall transparency. Not only do you hear deeper into the mix, you also seem to able to follow phrasing better, as if a better speaker had a better temporal (events/second) resolution, too. The acoustic guitar of Nick Drake is very prat-ty on the Tab, but becomes more juicy and harmonious on the LS8. On the Huelgas Ensemble track the acoustics of the hall is immediately noticeable on the LS8, voices have clearer timbre, and the phrasing seems more dynamic and captivating. The temporal resolution thing also came to mind on the Brahms quartet movement: each short note on the strings has the time to have a clear beginning, texture and ending. Listening to the string orchestra beginning of Sibelius 4th, I thought that the upper mids of the LS8 might be just a touch elevated, whereas the Tab10 is a bit warmer overall. Ideally I might use the eq on the Devialet to tone down the 2kHz region by a dB or two.

It's also obvious that the LS8 screams for great accompanying equipment as it is so transparent, whereas the Tab10 is probably more forgiving.

I had a pair of ProAc Response 1SC a couple of years ago and the LS8 would seem to be higher in the range. I hope someone has the possibility to do a side-to-side comparison of the LS8 and the DB1, or the soon-to-be-released D2R -- not an easy task as there are only about 30 pairs of these worldwide

 

[TheDecameron]

I made a comparison of two LS3/5a-inspired models, Proac Tablette 10 and Celef LS8 just yesterday, and thought some might find it interesting, so here goes:

I used a Devialet 220pro to drive the speakers that were located in the middle of a quite a big room, with about 4 m space behind them. I don't imagine anyone actually positioning either of these speakers that way for other than testing purposes, but the sound is comparatively free of wall reflections in this way, and gives a pretty good picture of their resolution and tonal capabilities. The LS8 is rated 2dB less sensitive than the Tab 10 so I adjusted the volume accordingly. Changing the speakers always took a couple of minutes.

I went through the following tracks:

Dire Straits: Telegraph Road
Nick Drake: Black Eyed Dog
Gallus: Mirabile Mysterium (Huelgas Ensemble)
Brahms: String Quartett C minor, 1st movement (Emerson Quartet)
Sibelius: Symphony 4 (Oramo, Birmingham SO)

It's maybe a bit unfair to compare a £2500 speaker with a £1000 one so one expects a marked difference. Well, long story short: whereas the Tab10 is a great little speaker and all-round performer as such, the LS8 is in a different league regarding tonality, microdynamics (texture) and overall transparency. Not only do you hear deeper into the mix, you also seem to able to follow phrasing better, as if a better speaker had a better temporal (events/second) resolution, too. The acoustic guitar of Nick Drake is very prat-ty on the Tab, but becomes more juicy and harmonious on the LS8. On the Huelgas Ensemble track the acoustics of the hall is immediately noticeable on the LS8, voices have clearer timbre, and the phrasing seems more dynamic and captivating. The temporal resolution thing also came to mind on the Brahms quartet movement: each short note on the strings has the time to have a clear beginning, texture and ending. Listening to the string orchestra beginning of Sibelius 4th, I thought that the upper mids of the LS8 might be just a touch elevated, whereas the Tab10 is a bit warmer overall. Ideally I might use the eq on the Devialet to tone down the 2kHz region by a dB or two.

It's also obvious that the LS8 screams for great accompanying equipment as it is so transparent, whereas the Tab10 is probably more forgiving.

I had a pair of ProAc Response 1SC a couple of years ago and the LS8 would seem to be higher in the range. I hope someone has the possibility to do a side-to-side comparison of the LS8 and the DB1, or the soon-to-be-released D2R -- not an easy task as there are only about 30 pairs of these worldwide

That was a nice description eka. It’s reassuring that extra money does indeed buy greater SQ. I hadn’t heard of the LS8. Could you live with the Tablette, if you’d only heard it in isolation?

 

[eka]

That was a nice description eka. It’s reassuring that extra money does indeed buy greater SQ. I hadn’t heard of the LS8. Could you live with the Tablette, if you’d only heard it in isolation?

Probably yes - I've just developed a sweet tooth for midrange quality and timbral accuracy from having heard some more high end speakers down the road I also listen quite a lot to classical, and certain things there, particularly choral music, are hard to reproduce accurately. The Tab10 is a great all-rounder and deservedly has a big fan club already. But there were recently some LS8s available at almost Tab10 prices and this seemed to me a real bargain, though of course I'm only familiar with a tiny fraction of all the £1000ish speakers out there...

 

[stackowax]

A question about power handling. Don't know about the other models of LS3/5s, but the Graham LS3/5 specifies an impedance of 9 ohms and a "handling capacity of 25 watts speech and music." I know people of often use low powered tube amps into speakers like these, but I don't own those. I do have an assortment of high quality (I think anyway) ss amps including Exposure XVIs mono amps (125wpc), Naim 250 Mk2 version (80wpc), and a Dynavector HX1.2 (180 wpc). Obviously all of these are well in excess of 25 watt handling capacity specified by Graham, so I suppose I shouldn't use any of them with this speaker. But I seem to recall that at reasonable volume levels, continuous power is rarely more than a few wpc. I guess the issue is whether "handling capacity" is meant to apply to continuous power or peak power?

Anyway, I'm obviously just trying to rationalize not having to go out and buy yet another amplifier to listen to these speakers, so if anyone can help in that regard let me know

 

[RossB]

You definitely don't need another power amplifier for these speakers. I use 200 watt Exposure 5010 monoblocks with both my Graham LS3/5s and LS6s and the combination is a spectacular one. The LS3/5s are wonderful sounding speakers and will sound great on any of your amps, particularly the 16 Monos.

 

[Martyn Miles]

Probably yes - I've just developed a sweet tooth for midrange quality and timbral accuracy from having heard some more high end speakers down the road I also listen quite a lot to classical, and certain things there, particularly choral music, are hard to reproduce accurately. The Tab10 is a great all-rounder and deservedly has a big fan club already. But there were recently some LS8s available at almost Tab10 prices and this seemed to me a real bargain, though of course I'm only familiar with a tiny fraction of all the £1000ish speakers out there...

Those LS8s did look to be something of a bargain.
I was sorely tempted...

 

[Tarzan]

@eka- great write up enjoyed reading that, one thing that amazes me about the Tab 10 is how loud they go - can the Celef perform this trick- just curious.

Has there ever been a better time for small sealed boxes?

 

[eka]

@Tarzan , I haven't seriously experimented with the volume but I feel the Celef does go comfortably pretty loud despite being a sealed box (like the Tab10). It has low sensitivity though and a recommended power limit of just 50W, so maybe no live concert volumes with these ones... One more pair just appeared on ebay: http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5338728743&icep_item=273746845440

 

[Tarzan]

@Tarzan , I haven't seriously experimented with the volume but I feel the Celef does go comfortably pretty loud despite being a sealed box (like the Tab10). It has low sensitivity though and a recommended power limit of just 50W, so maybe no live concert volumes with these ones... One more pair just appeared on ebay: http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5338728743&icep_item=273746845440

Love to but l don't need a divorce at the moment..... nice price though!

 

[stackowax]

You definitely don't need another power amplifier for these speakers. I use 200 watt Exposure 5010 monoblocks with both my Graham LS3/5s and LS6s and the combination is a spectacular one. The LS3/5s are wonderful sounding speakers and will sound great on any of your amps, particularly the 16 Monos.

Thanks Ross. I think you’re right that they sound best with the XVIs. I’m really liking the LS3/5s. I’ve paired them with an REL sub (Stadium II) and the combo is magical.

 

[RossB]

They're amazing little speakers. I bought a Rel T5i to use with mine, but ended up selling it. In a small room in nearfield they sound great, and while the sub added bass, it also took away some of the character of the speaker, so I decided I would rather do without the bass.

In the end I bought a pair of Graham LS6s as well, which are perfect in my small room and have more than adequate bass. I like these better than the LS5/9 which I also owned for a while. But I have kept the LS3/5s and listen to them from time to time because they do have the special magic that well-implemented tiny sealed boxes seem to possess.