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Getting started with vinyl

73Chaz said:
Lovely collection sondek. Do the record cabinets reverberate at all, though? Or do you move the decks onto the wall shelf when in use?
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They don't seem to reverberate, although I guess at high volumes there will be some bass feedback. All of the decks have had a go on the wall shelf, and the Sondek was on it for about 20 years of my 27 year ownership. I have been planning further wall shelves for a while, but it's not urgent as the decks also sound good where they are. The Technics and Garrard are on squash balls and the Sondek and SL-10 have isolation built in.

Also, what's the wood glue doing?!
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Wood glue is the safest and most effective way to clean records. Smear it on, let it dry, peel it off:
http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=102241
 
dss said:
Nothing in the world of audio will give more pleasure and benefit per £ than the vinyl is it.

Get a deck that goes round and a needle that isn't broken, and down to the records shops for the source material and off you go there.

DS
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True this is. Learn how to clean vinyl and buy some Nagaoka inners to keep them that way. Records picked up dirty and cheap will be brought back to life and sound sooooo much better than their silver siblings.
 
Stubby said:
I have heard an NDX with a 555PS. This was good, but I still felt it lacked something when compared with my old CDS3. I have heard an NDS at a recent DR open day. Good as the NDS was, I also heard a top level LP12 on the same day and for me the vinyl was better. This is what really made me consider going down this route, albeit not with a top spec LP12 as I can't afford it!

I'm just looking for something more analogue without breaking the bank.
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Fair enough, vinyl is wonderful, albeit more work than streaming, I hope you find something.
 
Xerxes X auction finishing today on 'that' site. No sag issues on these and perfect platform to show off the capabilities of Rega arms to start with. Great decks that will help you hear what's on your vinyl!
 
sonddek said:
Personally I've lost interest in my Sondek. All of my other decks make a fairer fist of playing tunes and beats:
deckstable_lowrez.jpg
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Looks like an old LP12 that one and its not on a wall shelf. Also, it doesn't look like it has an arm. That seems to me an unfair disadvantage.
 
Thanks sondek. I will give the wood glue method a try... Just waiting for a shelving project before I set up my Axis again and new to me SL1200.
 
Apologies, comment deleted by accident :( but here is a precis from memory:


Elephantears said:
Looks like an old LP12 that one and its not on a wall shelf. Also, it doesn't look like it has an arm. That seems to me an unfair disadvantage.
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Although my Sondek is now fallow, I last listened to it on the wall-shelf. It was set up by Derek Jenkins. The spec was Lingo/Cirkus/GreenStreet/Ekos2/ArkivB/SilverArmCable/Uphorik, so good enough to know what a 1000 quid Sondek will sound like. My opinion on the deck's speed stability is based on listening to many Sondeks including four top-spec Klimax Sondeks.
 
Not that I want to start up this debate again, but I seem to remember you were saying that the wow problem was on one record, I can't remember which - 'American Pie' or something. Your argument has been scattered across so many different threads, whenever an LP12 is mentioned, that its very difficult to follow. I suggest that you cut and paste your claims into your own thread in order to make the argument coherent, and give us examples and explain your method.
 
I don't think you need to be so pedantic. It's not that hard to deduce that the LP12 isn't the most speed-stable turntable in the world.
 
I'm not being pedantic, I just think a separate thread from Sondek making his argument would be more useful than putting out the same argument on every thread in which turntables are involved, and putting the argument as if it has been already established somewhere else.
 
Elephantears said:
I just think a separate thread would be more useful than putting out the same argument on every thread in which turntables are involved
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Fair enough, he does do that, but heck, don't we all? He posts that picture of his turntables a lot too but I'm not bored with it yet ;0)
 
sonddek said:
As many people here are tired of hearing, it's my opinion that...
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I share my opinions here. I don't recall reading that sharing opinions is against forum rules.

As it happens I did start a thread on this issue at the Linn forum: http://forums.linn.co.uk/bb/showthread.php?tid=12841

The results at the end of that thread were interesting once I had established the most effective way to tame what I regard as the Sondek's suspension induced speed elasticity. Even some quite hardcore Linnies preferred the tethered Sondek to the untethered:
"Well I listened to these two clips quite carefully Richard, and I have to say I prefer B by quite a margin, in fact, from the first few notes on that piano it sounded marvellously natural and even though it is a lowly MP3 the music is full of rythmic subleties that draw me in. And this on a piece of music that I don't normally enjoy. Whatever deck it is ( I suspect your LP12 with no skrew mod ) it is gloriously well set up IMHO and sings forth.
Whatever it is listen to it and enjoy it and to hell with everyone elses opinion ( including mine ).

Why don't I like a ?, the piano doesn't sound right, the fundamental is not in proportion to the harmonics , it actually sounds like a cheaper piano. The whole sound is harder and glassy with a glare to it. It is on the verge of shouting. Also the rythmic subtleties are lost and it fails to involve me in the same way as b. For instance the little piano trill just before Don sings " the day the music died " on a) the trill is poorly timed and feels fluffed, whereas on b) it adds a delightful pause and is far more clearly delineated in terms of the separate notes that make up the sequence. It adds a delightful musical flourish.
So I am definitely a b) man."
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Deck b was actually the Sondek modified with a tether to constrain horizontal subchassis movement. This comment was an astonishingly accurate description of my own impressions of the differences between the two recordings, and the person who made it clearly loved the tethered deck compared to the untethered one, as did I. No arguments, he just called the recordings the wrong way as he knew not which was which.

Unfortunately those needledrops were erased in the Great Googlecull, but I think the thread is still informative

I think somebody with a reasonable ear can quite easily hear a piano going out of tune during Sondek renditions of most piano recordings, especially when compared directly to CD or decks which have good speed stability. I leave it to the quoted comment above to articulate why that matters musically.
 
You posted that the LP12 is not very speed stable in the Linn forum? I'm impressed. Very brave. Do you now live next door to Lord Lucan and Salman Rushdie?
 
Elephantears said:
I'm not being pedantic, I just think a separate thread from Sondek making his argument would be more useful than putting out the same argument on every thread in which turntables are involved,
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People are entitled to recommend the Sondek to a new turntable enthusiast, and others are entitled to advise caution about it, or make other recommendations. If you don't think something is worth the money, why not say so? No hard feelings.

...and putting the argument as if it has been already established somewhere else.
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I did nothing of the sort. I explicitly said it was my opinion.
 
Mr Pig said:
You posted that the LP12 is not very speed stable in the Linn forum? I'm impressed. Very brave. Do you now live next door to Lord Lucan and Salman Rushdie?
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Haha, I also provided a Heath Robinson fix and needledrops so that people could listen and think for themselves. Linn is a very open-minded company which has the generosity of spirit to allow criticism of its own products on its own forum. I happen to think that they also make some wonderful kit. With correct application of Kevlar thread to stabilise the subchassis a Sondek can sound very good. I.M.O.
 
All I can say is that I have appreciated the input from all contributors. I never expected to get a consensus of opinion on a forum, but a wide variety of views that I can then consider and use to aid me in my decision making process.

It's certainly a subject that divides opinion! As things stand I am neither an LP12 lover or hater, seems to make me somewhat unique!

My thanks too to those that have PM'd me. You have all been most helpful.
 
Mr Pig said:
Ha ha ha ha ha...... :0)

Ha ha ha ha ha.....
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Actually I think it is admirable that I posted a thread on the manufacturer's own site about how a £17k turntable could be improved with some thread and tape, and I uploaded needledrops, and the manufacturer has been quite happy to let all 16 pages of it sit there for months with no effort to interfere with the thread at all. Good on them. They have also provided great support for all of my other Linn products.
 
sonddek said:
Actually I think it is admirable that the manufacturer has let all 16 pages of it sit there with no effort to interfere with the thread at all.
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Sorry, but the idea of Linn being open minded is funny. They are one of the most dogmatic companies in Hi-Fi.
 
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