Greg
2t5b
A friend of mine had an E30 M3 Sport Evolution. I loved it, real allure, amazing to drive and very rare to see one around that time.
Getting into Naim...
- Thread starter Martyn Miles
- Start date
cutting42
Arrived at B4 Hacker Ergo
Completely agree. I don't have M3 level BM's but a 335i (private) and have had two 3 series diesels (company car) and for the same lease cost as a boring eurobox I can have a car that makes me smile while driving at any speed, 50mpg and great interiors. The other German premiums did not give me that although the original A4 was a great at the time, Mercs are boring to drive but comfy.
Now a sports car (porkers, fezza's and the like are great fun but mad expensive to run and service and are barely faster in many cases. My 335i will smoke a 911 turbo from the early 90's and any Ferrari earlier than the 355 (F40 excepted). Yes I have driven them and Porsche is my favourite marque and I will get one at some point when the kids get cheaper (I hope). However they do have a unique feel when driving and do feel special in a way that any mass market car never can.
By the way I quite like Naim as well. Originally bought all my stuff on demo against other makes purely on merit. It was not until relatively recently that I have upgraded and only because I like the DIY approach. Prior to this I have not felt the need to upgrade for 17 years or so.
LOTUS HIFI
LOTUS Hifi
Drive a Ford though and you realise that humdrum cars can be amazing to drive. The Focus, mondeo, puma, Ka etc. are some of the most sorted everyday cars i've ever sampled. The chassis, steering feel, control weights and the ride/handling is just so right. Ever tried the gearbox in a Puma ? It's a revelation compared to a manual Beemer. Stuninng. BMW could do with a bit of that DNA in their cars IMO. Ditching recirculating ball steering might be good first step !
That said, i'll go with you on the Audis which are, present day RS4 aside, shocking to drive and mindnumbingly inert and tedious. There's a bit more to it that fitting 22" rims, 600lb springs and dropping a 500bhp+ V8 in the front.
cutting42
Arrived at B4 Hacker Ergo
I had forgotten Ford, I had a Mk1 Focus before the Audi A4 and a Mk1 Mondeo a couple of cars before that. You are right they were lovely to drive and Focus was a scream. I nearly got SO a Puma back in the day but it lost out to a Saab 900 Aero.
Not totally sure of my facts but pretty sure it is Merc with the recirculating ball steering, not BMW but I am not really an expert to that level on the cars.
James
Lord of the Erg\o/s
Just to humour you ...
I sold my Naim CDS2/XPS/52/Super/135s and bought Densen B-400XS/250/350s and had change left over. I have never been happier with the music my hifi makes. It's a bit more than £1500 though.
Just in case you think I'm anti-Naim, I still have a Nait2, 72/140 and NAT02. My LP12 is powered by an Armageddon and I think the ARO arm on it is the best thing Naim has ever produced.
Is that enough for you?
James
James
Lord of the Erg\o/s
Insecurity? Who knows ...
I got into Naim because I liked the way it sounded. I'd have kept Naim if the 135s I had didn't keep tripping its SOA circuitry driving my home-made loudspeakers.
James
Interesting people remark on Ford models as being well sorted. I like them, had 2 Fiestas in the 80s/90s though haven't owned one for years. My Mum bought a Ford Ka, base model, £5000 all up, new, 7 years ago, and it's a great little thing. Lots of fun to drive and all the car you need for local trips. She loves it, and when she hangs up her keys in a couple of years' time even if it's worth nothing it will have cost a mighty £500 a year in depreciation.
I think BM have rack & pinion steering, I'll check.
I think BM have rack & pinion steering, I'll check.
LOTUS HIFI
LOTUS Hifi
I guess you must mean the 964 turbo.
Even in lowliest form (the 3.3) the 964t was about the same power as the latest spec 335 but at least 200kg lighter ! What's the beemer, well over 1600kg I bet. I don't know if your comment is based on having a drive of one but if the 964 was on song and producing quoted figures then in a straight line I don't think the BM would see what way the porsche went. I've not driven one but driven 993tt's and they certainly don't hang about for such an old car. Even the 930 is like a firecracker once it comes on boost.
3.6, turbo S and 3.6S variants have a shedload more horse as well and would match a present day CSL for out and out accel !
LOTUS HIFI
LOTUS Hifi
I think you need to change your yardstick. The steering of every BM i've driven bar the E30M3 has sucked bigtime. Rack & Pinion 5 series were ok-ish (528 and below) but still not great.
LOTUS HIFI
LOTUS Hifi
The Ka is fabulous. Your mum is onto a great thing. The puma is amazing as is both Focus models. Just great fun, geared very much toward driver involvement and well sorted. The launch 1.8i Focus just had no right to be that good for an everyday car. It changed the family hatchback across the world forever and gave VW one almighty wake up call. The Mondeo is wonderfully supple and fluid, I almost bought a V6 ST220 a few months back for a daily smoke. Whoever is heading up Fords ride and handling really knows his onions that's for sure.
Tim Jones
pfm Member
To the OP:
I spent 15 years with Naim gear, going up the food chain from a Nait 3 in 1995 to a CDS3/555PS/252/Scap/135s/SBL system in 2007. It was a hell of a ride - and the ultimate system was overwhelmingly impressive.
However...since selling all this gear and adoping a system worth probably a tenth as much, I haven't listened to anything like, or been involved in this much music for at least ten years. I suspect this has something to do with the sheer complexity of those big Naim systems - the power supplies, the interconnects, etc - which quite possibly only end up providing only a very contrived, if tremendously powerful, version of what's on the recording.
For the first time in 15 years I don't have a Naim component in my system. My little Nait 2 still seduces me now and then, and I'll never sell it, but its replacement with an NVA AP50 is possibly one of the best ideas I've ever had in hi fi.
If I was to be analytical about it, what the NVA gives me is an element of insight into a recording, in terms of separation and space, that even the mega-Naim system could not offer. But equally, what it lacks is the sense of drama and...compulsion...that Naim offers. So in a way it depends what version of the truth you prefer. Hope this helps.
I spent 15 years with Naim gear, going up the food chain from a Nait 3 in 1995 to a CDS3/555PS/252/Scap/135s/SBL system in 2007. It was a hell of a ride - and the ultimate system was overwhelmingly impressive.
However...since selling all this gear and adoping a system worth probably a tenth as much, I haven't listened to anything like, or been involved in this much music for at least ten years. I suspect this has something to do with the sheer complexity of those big Naim systems - the power supplies, the interconnects, etc - which quite possibly only end up providing only a very contrived, if tremendously powerful, version of what's on the recording.
For the first time in 15 years I don't have a Naim component in my system. My little Nait 2 still seduces me now and then, and I'll never sell it, but its replacement with an NVA AP50 is possibly one of the best ideas I've ever had in hi fi.
If I was to be analytical about it, what the NVA gives me is an element of insight into a recording, in terms of separation and space, that even the mega-Naim system could not offer. But equally, what it lacks is the sense of drama and...compulsion...that Naim offers. So in a way it depends what version of the truth you prefer. Hope this helps.
dave
Plywood King
This one is easily answered. Except for Linn, no one "judges" meridian , rega, linn, b&w, exposure, krell, bryston, etc etc in the same insulting manner as Naim on the hifi forums in question. Most likely because there won't be much of a rise with the other brand's owners as few actively post here. As mentioned on another ongoing thread, this place is full of Linn and/or Naim owners increasing the odds you'll piss off someone.
Not quite! I asked you to name the amps that were the equal of Naim (and I was thinking of my own, but hey-ho) up to £1500.
A Densen was, by the way, one of those in my comparison.
Hmmm, I'm wondering .... as a bunch, do audiophiles have the highest % of wind-up merchants? Save for the first page which was almost on thread, 9 pages of complete and utter bollox.
Actually take that back, only a few posts in on the first page and it starts (the wind-ups that is)
Actually take that back, only a few posts in on the first page and it starts (the wind-ups that is)
Martyn Miles
pfm Member
I've been around long enough to recall the Linn/Naim 'Axis', as it was called. Were the 'others', that is the non Linn/Naim owners, the Allies? In the end the Allies beat the Axis powers. OK, comparing WW II to audio ownership is taking things a bit far, but from what I've observed some are that passionate. As you'll have picked up, I'm not in either camp. I have Linn turntable and a Naim CD player. As my main interest is in semi-prof. audio (recording/mixing) I'm really, to be honest, ahead of Hi-Fi front ends. I record music in simple ( Blumlein crossed pair mics. etc. ) ways. The real beginning... Martyn