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General Election 2024

Tony L said:
That Farage would want to ban history is understandable. Same in the USA with the far-right/MAGA crowd trying to erase slavery.
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It's a slightly odd move by Farage though as the far-right peddle belief systems rather than facts.
 
Tony L said:
I notice the son of a toolmaker appeared on a Sun debate yesterday. Hopefully that alone will lose him some seats in Liverpool. There are some good independents standing in many seats there.
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If you’re looking for a barometer to give an indication of Starmer’s attitude to those “hard working families” he professes to love (his dad was a toolmaker, not sure if you knew that) the fact that he’s writing for, and appearing under the banner of, the most vicious, racist, anti-union, anti-working class paper in the country should give you an idea.
 
Seanm said:
Don’t know why some people still trot this out, it’s so silly. The press have a right wing agenda. When Labour adopt a right wing agenda, and look like being better at putting it into action than the Tories, then the press support Labour. Like, Murdoch isn’t nine: he doesn’t care about being seen to be on the winning side, he cares about power.

Besides that, they’ve every reason to claim credit. They tanked the Tories, just by reporting all the shit they were doing, rather than sitting on it. Now they’re sitting on all the shit Labour are doing. Might just as easily be the other way around. They’re not embracing inevitability, they’re creating it.
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Not the media are mean trope again. Just this weekend, Sharon got some very nice airtime on Sky. She made her case. And there is renewed hope for the left. Should Starmer get a working majority, there will be plenty of opportunities for union types and their winged messengers in Parliament to have conversations with Rachel. The laws of probability suggest some of their needs will be met. Chin up!
 
Kirk said:
Not the media are mean trope again. Just this weekend, Sharon got some very nice airtime on Sky. She made her case. And there is renewed hope for the left. Should Starmer get a working majority, there will be plenty of opportunities for union types and their winged messengers in Parliament to have conversations with Rachel. The laws of probability suggest some of their needs will be met. Chin up!
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Deluded or self-deluding... can't quite make up my mind which you are...
 
kensalriser said:
Everyone thought Brexit was done in 2017 and Farage wasn't the leader at the election. In 2015 UKIP polled 12.6%.
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Fair point, but Starmer’s attempts to coat tail the chauvinism of Reform allows them to set the agenda in dragging the whole debate to the right. We are not seeing a universal rush to the right; rather it’s a polarisation. If he didn’t have such a pessimistic and condescending view of ordinary people, he might realise that ensuring the rich pay their share, addressing climate breakdown, lifting children out of poverty, and demonstrating compassion and solidarity with refugees, are more popular than he imagines.
 
Finnegan said:
Fair point, but Starmer’s attempts to coat tail the chauvinism of Reform allows them to set the agenda in dragging the whole debate to the right. We are not seeing a universal rush to the right; rather it’s a polarisation. If he didn’t have such a pessimistic and condescending view of ordinary people, he might realise that ensuring the rich pay their share, addressing climate breakdown, lifting children out of poverty, and demonstrating compassion and solidarity with refugees, are more popular than he imagines.
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But less so with those who control the media, and the right of the labour party, come to that.
 
Ponty said:
Presumably you’re a supporter. I’d like to get behind them, but they’ve gone too left. I suppose they’re hoping to fill a void from labour turning right to become electable. Some nice ideas but impossible to implement. Whilst this may please a minority, they need voters on board from left, right and centre who unite around the key issue.

He won’t say where the money is coming from. We know he’d just borrow / print it, but he won’t say it. God knows where the UK borrowing rate would end up. Younger folk would discover what high interest rates actually look like. In truth, he can say anything he likes.
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I guess it depends whether you think rising interest rates are worse than rising sea levels.

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Finnegan said:
If you’re looking for a barometer to give an indication of Starmer’s attitude to those “hard working families” he professes to love (his dad was a toolmaker, not sure if you knew that) the fact that he’s writing for, and appearing under the banner of, the most vicious, racist, anti-union, anti-working class paper in the country should give you an idea.
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Liverpool will certainly notice that. It will cost many, many votes, though no worry of any seats going Tory! It should help Liverpool Independents, which is a good thing.
 
Alex S said:
Adrian Ramsay made it clear in the interview that they were not expecting to win but put pressure on the Labour Government, as such I have no problem with the manifesto and agree with him that the more votes/seats they get, the better.
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Exactly this. They won't be forming the next government. It's about having Green voices in parliament because we desperately need them to be heard.

Refusing to vote for them because you don't like something on page 7 of the manifesto is absurd.
 
Speaking of The Scum, Harry Cole currently on Politics Live voicing the language of the sewer re: refugees. How can the BBC platform this filth?
 
Finnegan said:
Farage is a traditional far-right populist. The ‘populist’ part of that description ensures he tosses a few sound bites into the mix that appeal to working class people. In the 1970’s, the NF would intersperse their vile racist election leaflets with clauses such as “root out political corruption,” “give the working man a fair break” etc. He’s the classic upper class millionaire toff posing with the pint and the fag as just an ordinary bloke down the boozer.

The vacuum that Farage now occupies was created in no small measure by the failure of Starmer to present any sort of meaningful left alternative. His sharp tack to the right to appease the bosses and bankers, and his attacks on those “hard working families” he claims to cherish, simply drives people into Farage’s open arms.

The notion that some here suggest- that subscribing to the view that the ongoing eastward expansion of NATO and the EU was not insignificant in Putin’s invasion of Ukraine makes you a Putin stooge, or taken in by Farage, is facile to the point of imbecilic.
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Agree that the left have been woeful but Starmer is not a real lefty so there's no use pinning your hopes on him. It's up to the proper left to do something about the left but they seem only to be interested in Twitter stunts, language inflation, factionalism and pining for Corbyn at the moment.

Putin believes that Russia rightfully deserves spheres of influence, which is thinking that goes way back to the pre-NATO Tsars - and reflects a deep insecurity borne of Russian entitlement, exceptionalism and imperialism.
 
Finnegan said:
Speaking of The Scum, Harry Cole currently on Politics Live voicing the language of the sewer re: refugees. How can the BBC platform this filth?
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The BBC normalises far-right rhetoric. Based on the past 15 years I’d argue that was its primary function when it comes to “news” current affairs etc. The organisation’s track record of platforming extremists like Farage, the IEA, Douglas Murray, Melanie Philips etc is there for all to see. Harry Cole is yet another public school far-right knobhead of exactly the BBC’s favoured type. Why wouldn’t he be there expressing his racism and conspiracy theory?
 
Tony L said:
The BBC normalises far-right rhetoric. Based on the past 15 years I’d argue that was its primary function when it comes to “news” current affairs etc. The organisation’s track record of platforming extremists like Farage, the IEA, Douglas Murray, Melanie Philips etc is there for all to see. Harry Cole is yet another public school far-right knobhead of exactly the BBC’s favoured type. Why wouldn’t he be there expressing his racism and conspiracy theory?
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And let’s not forget Have I Got News For You’s incessant promotion and normalising of Johnson as an avuncular and entertaining clown.
 
Another tory leaflet just arrived.

It's Labour or LibDem here that can beat the tory, the green candidate can't do that and realistically can only split the anti-tory vote. I don't see tory fans here switching to green.

Nationally, only Labour can beat the tories.

The tories only hope now is the anti-tory vote is split by some notion of taking the moral high ground on an issue Labour in opposition can do nothing about.

As ever, it's about priorities, For me, #1 is a tory defeat.
 
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