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Ergo Number Nine - Adventures in Micromonitor Design

quincy said:
That Makita saw is big bucks ... you could fill a workshop with ABW that would last you for years for the same cost ( at Northern Ireland prices :D )

My question : surely a cut from a 45 degree router bit would be just as accurate?
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Quincy, are you looking at a gold-plated version? The regular model here retails for around NZD1,200 - but I got mine for a bargain NZD795.

Yes, of course a router cut would be just as accurate, but not nearly as convenient. You'll need a chamfering bit with a full inch face to mitre 18mm boards. The other alternative is a regular butt joint. Not nearly as nice, but just as effective. Since ABW is so cheap in NI, you could afford a bit of wastage. ;)

James
 
That Makita saw is big bucks ... you could fill a workshop with ABW that would last you for years for the same cost ( at Northern Ireland prices )
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quincy, I sense you're on a roll here, so this is no time to let money stand in the way of your dream. I'd buy one, but you know I'm as poor as a church mouse, and you're loaded (and a handsome devil to boot). Honestly, it'll only hurt for a few seconds while you punch in the PIN at the checkout. Think of the work that saw can do, and the future projects you can tackle with ease. God damn it, who knows what will happen if you'll just buy that saw. You could end up an esteemed member of The Guild of Master Craftsmen and err, other stuff way more exciting than that.

Mr Tibbs

PS can I borrow it for a couple of days?
 
Mr Tibbs said:
I'd buy one, but you know I'm as poor as a church mouse, and you're loaded (and a handsome devil to boot).
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Tibbsy

Remember ... The Lord of the Ergos has visited The Ponderosa outside Killinchy.

You are sitting on a cool patch of real estate, so less of the poor mouth!

I have other projects that will eat up my stash ... hardwood floor in the hallway, kitting out the sound studio etc.

Tell you what Mr T ... you do the web browsing and get me a good deal and you may have the Makita in your hands next week.
 
James said:
Quincy, are you looking at a gold-plated version? The regular model here retails for around NZD1,200 - but I got mine for a bargain NZD795.
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James

If Tibbs can get it for around £250 then I'll punch in the pin.

quincy

PS. How did you attach the fillets? With panel pins?
Could you have biscuited them before assembling the boxes? ( That may keep everything square )
 
You are sitting on a cool patch of real estate, so less of the poor mouth!
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Yes if we sold up then I'd be quids-in, but it would be back to life as Traveller - You know what happend the last time, what with me having to shoot the horse and all. Plus, how the hell am I supposed to get the Ergo's set up in the wagon?

Travelers4.jpg


If Tibbs can get it for around £250 then I'll punch in the pin.
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Er quincy, there are laws against stealing things. The quality of the Makita will be remembered long after the price is forgotten. Lift your floorboards and grab that money you put away for a rainy day - you'll be dead for a long time. Am I getting through or is this a lost cause ;)

Mr Tibbs
 
quincy said:
How did you attach the fillets? With panel pins?
Could you have biscuited them before assembling the boxes? ( That may keep everything square )
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Glue, my friend. Copious quantities of the creamy yellow stuff. I guess you could biscuit them if you like a bit of overkill.

It's probably not a bad idea to affix the fillets to the panels first. I realised this after I had mitre-cut the panels. With perfect hindsight, I would have:

(1) chosen a nice length of timber in the correct width;
(2) cut the rebates in a single pass;
(3) glue a full length of fillet on each rebated edge; then
(4) mitre cut each filleted panel to size.

That approach (cutting thickness 36mm) will definitely require a top quality compound-slide saw. Have you carressed the Makita and felt how smoothly the dual rail sliders move?

James

P/S: I oiled the ABW cabs last night, and noticed that my panels have a slight twist in them, which means one of them doesn't sit flat. I'm half-inclined to cut another set of panels in Sapele using the above approach. After all, the scrap ABW has not cost me anything and I did buy the Sapele for this and other projects.
 
James said:
. Have you carressed the Makita and felt how smoothly the dual rail sliders move?
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James

Quotes like this at 00.04 are not condusive to a good night's sleep ... I expect a bevy of Succubi will invade my dreams and offer up more than the mitred joints.

quincy
 
James said:
P/S: I oiled the ABW cabs last night, and noticed that my panels have a slight twist in them, which means one of them doesn't sit flat. I'm half-inclined to cut another set of panels in Sapele using the above approach. After all, the scrap ABW has not cost me anything and I did buy the Sapele for this and other projects.
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Unless you use a surface planer for getting a flat main surface with adjacent square edges, followed by a pass thru a thicknessing planer, you will never get a good result in combining solid wood panels.

Attempting to straighten and hold solid wood panels with clamps and glue thru variations in humidity and temperature in the modern domestic environment is a recipe for disappointment and tears.

It is more sensible to use a composite factory board, mdf or plywood, and then veneer it. The composite board will be more dimensionally stable plus it will sound better.

If you must go down the solid wood panel path, then a heavy bitumen damping sheet would be advised on all internal solid wood surfaces.
 
Hmmm ... looks like I'll be making a fresh set of cabs from virgin, seasoned, and perfectly machined one-piece Sapele.

Using that delightful Makita is such a chore. LOL!

James
 
Howsabout some dovetails this time.?.

'twould be classy, don'tcha think; never mind carpenters or joiners, it's time for a cabinet-maker to have a go . . .:)
 
MarkS said:
It is more sensible to use a composite factory board, mdf or plywood, and then veneer it. The composite board will be more dimensionally stable plus it will sound better.
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james

Knowing your fondness for MDF I am a bit puzzled why you did not use it for the 9s and then clad the boxes with ABW. You could even do away with the mitred joints by cutting biscuit slots into the end grain of the sides and the top and bottom panels. Then offer up the router with a wee roundover bit to tidy up the tops and bottoms. I always prefer a smooth round to a sharp edge.

quincy
 
james

I have sent Tibbs a pic of the computer table that I made. He should post it for me as I am still getting to grips with stp.

Note the lovely roundness of the edge which provides a welcome contrast to the rugged sharpness of the 90, snaps and 42.5.

quincy
 
quincy said:
Knowing your fondness for MDF I am a bit puzzled why you did not use it for the 9s and then clad the boxes with ABW. You could even do away with the mitred joints by cutting biscuit slots into the end grain of the sides and the top and bottom panels. Then offer up the router with a wee roundover bit to tidy up the tops and bottoms. I always prefer a smooth round to a sharp edge.
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The answer is simple, Quincy. The E-IXs are micromonitors and needed to be the same size as the esteemed LS3/5a. Even down to the look from the front as much as possible. The LS3/5a is 305mm x 190mm x 165mm and, when built from 12mm stock, has an internal volume barely 6.5L. The 15W8530K-01 prefers at least 9L. The only way to accommodate the extra volume is to increase the depth of the cabinets, especially when using 18mm stock. It's not difficult to work out that using effectively 36mm thick stock (MDF+ABW) means a dramatic reduction in volume.

In the past, I used MDF partly for resonance control and partly for structural assembly ease. The E-IXs are so small that neither are really necessary. Resonance will be easily dealt with by bitumen sheets or a single dowel brace, if necessary.

I see no harm in a slight variant to the design by rounding over the front and rear edges to create more of an EPOS ES11 look, or to use butt joints with all edges rounded over. It wouldn't significantly change the way the loudspeaker sounds. However, the version I'm building will have square edges to keep the visual resemblance as much as possible.

James
 
Nice row of chrome bumper naim, quincy;

table.jpg


It is more sensible to use a composite factory board, mdf or plywood, and then veneer it. The composite board will be more dimensionally stable plus it will sound better.
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Yeah but sensible is boring and simply a repeat of what has been done a thousand times before in the mass-market. Hey, even Pioneer seem to think that old oak from whiskey barrels can sound good!

P/S: I oiled the ABW cabs last night, and noticed that my panels have a slight twist in them, which means one of them doesn't sit flat. I'm half-inclined to cut another set of panels in Sapele using the above approach. After all, the scrap ABW has not cost me anything and I did buy the Sapele for this and other projects.
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That's a pity - was looking forward to seeing the nines in ABW. How bad is the twist - can it not be planed true, front and back?

Mr Tibbs
 
James said:
The E-IXs are micromonitors and needed to be the same size as the esteemed LS3/5a.James
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James

I have never seen or heard of the LS3/5a so, in theory, I could build the carcasses with MDF and cloak them in 22mm ABW.

Voila ... QUERGO I !!

quincy
 
MarkS said:
That is well seasoned timber, which is a slightly different animal from the "fresh" walnut under discussion.
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Actually, the walnut that I used had been seasoning in my garage for the last 5 years or more. It's hardly fresh. All the hardwoods I've been using have been kiln-dried and left to season in my climate for at least a good 6 months.

Mr Tibbs said:
That's a pity - was looking forward to seeing the nines in ABW. How bad is the twist - can it not be planed true, front and back?
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No doubt it can be planed, but then end-grain from some of the joints will show. The twist is not visible to the naked eye, and is in reality only about 1mm max at the corner. With an adjustable, spiked stand it won't be an issue.

quincy said:
I have never seen or heard of the LS3/5a so, in theory, I could build the carcasses with MDF and cloak them in 22mm ABW.
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Yes, as long as the baffle dimensions are 305mm x 190mm, the internal volume is very similar, and the drivers are located exactly where mine are (or will be soon). Anything significantly different will sound, um, different. Based on a very quick calculation, with 36mm panel thickness, your cabinet depth will need to be around 400mm to achieve 9L of internal volume. You'll encounter other difficulties with timber boards spanning 400mm that is rigidly attached to an MDF substrate. Plan A is strongly advised. Just buy that bloody Makita. It'll be an investment.

James
 
James

I did not realise that the Rodgers were near-field monitors par excellance.

I am about to equip the studio with this baby so they will complement it to perfection.

quincy
 
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