Disastrous and disruptive central heating installation; where to now?
- Thread starter Mike Reed
- Start date
Mike Reed
pfm Member
Hmmm! Hadn't thought of this. Quote for test 'n' trace £660 + extras. Not a lot in it. Not sure how to initiate this with J.L. claims dept. as it doesn't seem I have too much clout, though the costs scenario make sense.
Thanks, Tony. No way I'm scrimping on this but only have my physics lecturer friend's recommendation, mainly to increase efficiency and reduce pump pressure/speed on the vertical runs. Are you suggesting 15 mm for the horizontal runs? Never more than 2 m max to rads.
mandryka
pfm Member
I’m quite surprised and pleased that you believe your insurers will cover test and trace - and even more surprised and pleased that it’s only £660. Does that include the making good?
If it’s only £660 for test and trace, and that’s all your insurance company will cover, then maybe it’s not worth making a claim for it. This is because the claim will possibly effect your future premiums. One thing some people say is that if the total value of the claim is less than 5x excess, it’s possibly not a good idea in the long run to proceed with it.
I’ve just made a claim for £1400+ VAT on a policy with excess of £250. I’m not sure I’d have done it for much less.
If you’re managing the claim yourself through, for example, Sedgewick’s online portal, it’s a good idea to really familiarise yourself with the details of the job and the contract of insurance - the claims handlers will just read if superficially and their knee jerk reaction is to say no. You need to be ready to press your point in the terms of the contract. In fact, I’d go further. I’d say that you should be familiar with the wording of the contract before you make the claim and ensure that there’s nothing in the tradesman’s wording of his invoice which could cause a problem downline with the insurers.
If you have a broker managing the claim on your behalf, and they reject it, make sure he’s put the argument to them properly.
(I love making insurance claims!)
Mike just let the plumber do the pipework, normally the main flow and return will be 22mm and the 'legs' to the rads 15mm but depending on the number and size of the rads you could do it all in 15mm.
As an aside I recently replaced a boiler for customer, the cost of the boiler was £2700 plus my labour plus a WB engineer call out charge of £180 and his insurer paid £1900 to the cost of the boiler, no idea if that was ex excess or not but the customer was delighted.
Think the insurer was Aviva.
Best to have a word with them, track and trace doesn't include making good I think that's a separate claim.
As an aside I recently replaced a boiler for customer, the cost of the boiler was £2700 plus my labour plus a WB engineer call out charge of £180 and his insurer paid £1900 to the cost of the boiler, no idea if that was ex excess or not but the customer was delighted.
Think the insurer was Aviva.
Best to have a word with them, track and trace doesn't include making good I think that's a separate claim.
Mike Reed
pfm Member
Just 3 rads overall (1 not being done) and if 22mm is going to significantly help the flow up and down (esp. up), I want it. Think the old main pipes are 22mm.
Yes, according to my policy doc and renewal pp, it's only T & T, so unearthing, fixing and restoring would be on me (and a hassle etc.), I guess. The £660 from a local branch of a national company was the charge for coming and trying for one visit. Gas, if needed, would be extra + labour and all; still no guarantees of finding the leak position either (noe a small leak; trickier).
mandryka
pfm Member
Honestly, if it were me I'd get it re-piped above the floor and box them in! And I'd get myself a really good bottle of wine ready for when the job is finally over and done with and you can forget it. In fact, we should have a Pink Fish virtual party.
notaclue
pfm Member
22mm is quite a bit more obvious than 15mm if on display. Quite a difference when you see them side by side. Two lots of 22mm will be chunky looking if it can't be hidden. 15mm would look more discrete. But I'm sure this is the sort of stuff where you need proper advice on what's needed from the plumber doing the job. If plumber thinks 15mm is fine, I would take that advice.
That's a great idea @mandryka
This has been one of the best threads that I've read on PFM.
Mike has been outstanding throughout.
LecsonQuad
pfm Member
'Mike has been outstanding throughout.'
Yes, this is correct.
Yes, this is correct.
Mike Reed
pfm Member
Good heavens, Tony; you should get out more!
Well I'm blowed! The boot is on the other foot, surely. It's the advice, perseverance and generally sympathetic help which has been outstanding. I've simply been acknowledging those many positive posters who have helped me through a difficult and uncharted time.
Good heavens, Tony; you should get out more!
Well I'm blowed! The boot is on the other foot, surely. It's the advice, perseverance and generally sympathetic help which has been outstanding. I've simply been acknowledging those many positive posters who have helped me through a difficult and uncharted time.
Aye but you've shown remarkable restraint Mike not one single rant, pretty impressive
Seriously I've had customers go mental with not even a hundredth of a problem compared to your problem.
I've meant some right bampots (idiots) in the last 32 years working for myself however 99.9% of customers are and have been excellent but you never ever forget the nutters.
The Captain
~~~~~~~~~~
Mike. Hi there, I've just stumbled across your thread & without reading it all ( Im so exhausted with mine, I just can't bring myself to tbh) I was amazed to read about your overnight noise thing, in #1. I've been so demoralised thinking I was the only one, with this bedroom noise thing. Was repeatedly told I was the only one too, by Vaillant, grinding me into near-insanity.
So, do we have the same overnight noise issue?? Mine's a Vaillant split heatpump. Govt grant (complicating matters here, as installers not paid by me).
I bypassed installers A) because they blanked my calls & emails to zero, & B) because as it's clearly a hardware issue, so cannot be the fault of the installers (my logic, & remains so however many builders tell me it's solely the installers' responsibility on my build forum). I've had an 18 month long & expensive (long calls) fight with Vaillant. No resolution.
It's ruined my spare bedroom, & the adjacent bedroom too ( a plasterboard wall between meaning the noise heard prominently thru), & even heard in my 3rd bedroom too: interrupting my sleep, making me angry & stressed. So I have to turn the whole system off at 11pm (at the very time I need a heating system to be on ready for the mornings), meaning it's left to freeze solid/ ruining the hardware, & I have no heat or hot water AM... but I have no choice but turn it off last thing, if I want to sleep.
I am SO livid & stressed. ALL due to the wretched positioning of a "hydraulic unit" (the most hateful words in my life) in the spare bedroom cupboard, which I wasn't informed would make any noise whasoever.. let alone a prominent, highly-irritating mechanical noise, incessantly 10pm to 7 am (only during cold periods).
Does this ring true with you too??
Capt
So, do we have the same overnight noise issue?? Mine's a Vaillant split heatpump. Govt grant (complicating matters here, as installers not paid by me).
I bypassed installers A) because they blanked my calls & emails to zero, & B) because as it's clearly a hardware issue, so cannot be the fault of the installers (my logic, & remains so however many builders tell me it's solely the installers' responsibility on my build forum). I've had an 18 month long & expensive (long calls) fight with Vaillant. No resolution.
It's ruined my spare bedroom, & the adjacent bedroom too ( a plasterboard wall between meaning the noise heard prominently thru), & even heard in my 3rd bedroom too: interrupting my sleep, making me angry & stressed. So I have to turn the whole system off at 11pm (at the very time I need a heating system to be on ready for the mornings), meaning it's left to freeze solid/ ruining the hardware, & I have no heat or hot water AM... but I have no choice but turn it off last thing, if I want to sleep.
I am SO livid & stressed. ALL due to the wretched positioning of a "hydraulic unit" (the most hateful words in my life) in the spare bedroom cupboard, which I wasn't informed would make any noise whasoever.. let alone a prominent, highly-irritating mechanical noise, incessantly 10pm to 7 am (only during cold periods).
Does this ring true with you too??
Capt
Sorry to read this @captain but no completely different systems, are you saying that an air source heat pump has been installed inside the property?
Why not just crop it out and revert back to what was there before, it sounds absolutely terrible btw.
Mike Reed
pfm Member
Captain, please don't go down with your ship.
. Our experiences may be similar but caused by entirely different phenomena. My new pump (previously under kitchen units) with cylinder, valves etc. is in the airing cupboard, separated by a stud wall from our bedroom. 3 weeks after installation the pump etc. started coming on during the night at the end of a cold spell. We moved bedrooms. Only 1 month+ later were we informed that we had a leak (via water smart meter). Cold mains was filling the c/h pipes and tripping the frost protection in the new Vaillant boiler.For the life of me, I can't see the efficacy of air source heat pumps; bloody expensive, limited output when you need it, extra leccy use, prone to breakdown, expensive annual inspections, outside space/access required and probably more reasons for the low take-up in this country.. Maybe I'm reading/hearing the wrong reports, but their cost-effectiveness eludes me.
W.r.t. Vaillant, I've had no trouble getting through and receiving advice; however, they didn't guess it was a leak causing the boiler/pump to come on; they simply pointed the finger at Honeywell, who were more insightful (it was nothing to do with the settings; it was the 12 degree or below pipe water triggering the pump etc. On reflection, maybe not such a useful call to Vaillant, as they couldn't tell me why their design set the fr. protection at a ludicrous 12 degrees !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We're on 28mm main loop but it's a long run and copper used to be cheap, thankfully resisted one plumber's advice to go for microbore.
Pumps are good now and how often will all the rads be on? I only use three 95% of the time, probably five or six days in the last year when all the rooms were in use and heating demanded.