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Denafrips Ares II thoughts

It’ll be interesting to hear how much it transforms more modest DACs, and whether a modest DAC plus DDC to a combined price beats the same amount spent on a more upmarket DAC. Do tell….
 
Are there any DCC reviews that show objective benefits?

I still use IFI Silencers and they seem to make a small positive difference.

But the three Schiit USB decrapifiers are sitting on the shelf.
 
JTC said:
It’ll be interesting to hear how much it transforms more modest DACs, and whether a modest DAC plus DDC to a combined price beats the same amount spent on a more upmarket DAC. Do tell….
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IMHO it isn't a simple matter of expensive DAC or not, at least in many cases. If the DAC uses an off-the-shelf DAC chip then it almost inevitably has its own internal DDC. That's how modern versatile DAC chips are designed.

An external DDC will typically reduce the impact of what the internal DDC does and impose its own. Whether or not there's any improvement (audible or just technical) is dependent on what the DAC chip is. There is some cost-dependence but there are modestly-priced DACs out there that use the same chip as upmarket ones.

I listened for a few weeks to some software DDC into my AK4490-chip DAC. I refuse to "listen hard" to identify small differences and I just go with "does it remove any impediment to my musical enjoyment?" It didn't.

Finally I removed the extra data processing in line with my personal engineering approach of doing what is necessary but no more.
 
flutteringwow said:
You're not exactly going to say 'WTF, OMG, IT's SHITE' are you :)
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True, but everyone is allowed to review.
DimitryZ said:
Are there any DCC reviews that show objective benefits?

I still use IFI Silencers and they seem to make a small positive difference.

But the three Schiit USB decrapifiers are sitting on the shelf.
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Yes, a bit limited, but objective results of what the Holo Audio May dac does to incomming noise and jitter.

See my post here:
Denafrips Ares II thoughts
 
cporton said:
Some background first of all before I comment on my most recent purchase...

I grew up, in hi-fi terms, working in a Linn dealership as a Saturday boy while at school and college in the 80s. I arrived assuming the digital revolution would be in full swing there but it wasn't long before my first Linn LP12 turntable was installed at home and the world of vinyl opened up to me.

There were a number of key attributes that I loved about vinyl. To quote Linn's own criteria, being able to follow the tune played by every instrument, not just the lead. Being able to listen into a depths of a recording, noticing those tiny musical timing clues, feeling like it was a real band playing together rather than just a set of noises. These are the things I love about a live performance... and what I've always valued from my hi-fi.

However, as time went on, the takeover by the CD took place and so I needed to join the digital world too. So a Linn Karik / Numerik combination arrived and of all the CD players I've heard, it's still one of the better options for those musical attributes... albeit never reaching the heights of my Linn LP12 (classik Ittok, Troika, Lingo, Linto combination). The sync cable between the Karik and Numerik is clearly the magic ingredient here... remove this and those musical clues fall away leaving just sounds. Clearly digital audio is more than just the 1s and 0s.

Coming up to the current day and streaming is the next requirement for the music lover. I have been using separate streamers and DACs because often there are multiple digital sources involved, such as TVs, computers etc. I have used my Linn Numerik, I've used a Benchmark DAC2-HGC and played around with a SMSL M300 to see what a AKM chip device is like.

The problem was I couldn't use a sync cable with a streamer with my Linn Numerik, so the timing and nuance was never there. And I was never satisfied with either the Benchmark or SMSL - they both had that "digital" sound to my ears. Further research revealed that both of those devices used Sigma-Delta converters (ESS ES9018 and AKM AK4497) whereas the Burr-Brown PCM1702 used in the Linn Numerik uses a R-2R ladder approach.

I wondered if I could find a R-2R ladder DAC with better syncing with the data stream (via a USB link looked promising) to match the approach in my Linn Karik / Numerik.

I started reading about the Denafrips range of R-2R ladder DACs and so ordered a Denafrips Ares II from Willow Tree Audio. It is being fed from a Raspberry Pi running Moode as a Roon endpoint with my Mac Mini as the Roon server. All connections are wired, the Raspberry Pi has a iFi iPower supply and I'm using a Kimber USB cable. The settings on the Ares II are for oversampling with a slow filter. It has had many hundreds of hours of play now so is fully settled.

What what have I found?

For the first time, I now have a digital system that is much, much better than my Karik / Numerik... which dates from 1996, so maybe no surprise there. Except that the Benchmark DAC2-HGC didn't manage it in many musical respects. It has all the musical timing and nuance present and the ability to listen into the depths of a recording is quite unlike anything digital I've ever lived with. It has been described as having an "analogue" sound and it has made a major jump towards the things I love about vinyl.

The greatest complement I can pay it is that I'm now constantly reaching through the back catalogue and playing albums I haven't heard for ages, wondering "how will it sound on this" and noticing musical details that had previously passed me by. Particularly albums I've never owned on vinyl. It's been one of those purchases that is an absolute joy from the start and I'm so pleased that the decision to buy it purely based on internet reviews (albeit with a money back guarantee) has paid off so handsomely.

I appreciate that compared to Linn's own £30k R-2R ladder DAC / streamer, my purchase is quite down to earth, but I imagine if Linn folk from back in the 80s were to choose a sub £1k DAC in today's market, the Denafrips would be high on their list.

Anyway, I wanted to post here to give the Denafrips Ares II a wholehearted recommendation. I have no doubt the more expensive models are terrific too... but the £800 Ares II is, in my view, quite the bargain.

Thanks for reading and happy listening.

Chris
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Thanks for the write up.

If Denafrips are getting those musical clues right .. it makes me wonder about their amps.

I'm kinda' on the look out for a late Kairn .. maybe the a Denafrips pre is the way to go.

BTW I also worked in a Linn dealership in the eighties - I remember the tune dem and a trip to Glasgow like it was yesterday :)
 
90125 said:
I'm kinda' on the look out for a late Kairn .. maybe the a Denafrips pre is the way to go.
BTW I also worked in a Linn dealership in the eighties - I remember the tune dem and a trip to Glasgow like it was yesterday :)
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Having had a (Brilliant power supply) Kairn and a AV5103, I would definitely consider looking for a AV5103... if I recall correctly, it was nearly double the price of the Kairn when it was launched and although it did more than the Kairn, some of that money went on improving the 2-channel sound as well. They seem to go for similar prices second hand these days... making the AV5103 the bargain (IMHO of course!).

I'm not sure I can remember my Linn dealership years like it was yesterday... but I do remember hearing a prototype Linn Aktiv crossover for the Isobariks... it was a massive bread board full of wires everywhere but it blew my mind when I heard it :D

C
 
cporton said:
Having had a (Brilliant power supply) Kairn and a AV5103, I would definitely consider looking for a AV5103... if I recall correctly, it was nearly double the price of the Kairn when it was launched and although it did more than the Kairn, some of that money went on improving the 2-channel sound as well. They seem to go for similar prices second hand these days... making the AV5103 the bargain (IMHO of course!).

I'm not sure I can remember my Linn dealership years like it was yesterday... but I do remember hearing a prototype Linn Aktiv crossover for the Isobariks... it was a massive bread board full of wires everywhere but it blew my mind when I heard it :D

C
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I can’t remember all of it - but the Aktiv training in Glasgow was memorable.

Yep the AV5103 is better but I’m not sure they’ve aged as well in terms of reliability / serviceability.
 
90125 said:
I can’t remember all of it - but the Aktiv training in Glasgow was memorable.

Yep the AV5103 is better but I’m not sure they’ve aged as well in terms of reliability / serviceability.
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Yep, the Glasgow trip was memorable.

No, the AV5103 has not aged well re reliability/serviceability.
 
I’ve had the Hestia & Hyperion in house for a week, so really they are just breaking in. The first 3 days were a bit up and down. So far they match up nicely with a pr. of Zu dirty weekends and a bit more surprisingly, a pr. of the Elac DFR52s. I’ve also swapped in a Mystere PA40 for the Hyperion, off the rca outs, with no problems and great sound. Nice having both hooked up. I haven’t gone the ‘Denafrips dac route’ yet, as I run a Benchmark Dac3 as my preamp. Now, the Dac3 feeds a pr. of the Hestia’s 2 balanced inputs. Hestia only has 1 pr. of rca inputs so I run my vinyl rig into those. This has resulted in a really happy ‘surprise’ I had wondered about going in. My vinyl rig, a VPI Traveler, Dynavector 20XL, Bob’s Sky step-up, Eat Glo Petite, has taken on the positive aspects which the Denafrips ‘house sound’ brings. Music has more weight, bodily presence, instrumental textures and deep tonal colors. The Benchmark Dac3 as a preamp is not lean; but robust, clean, clear, & uncolored. As a pre it passes what it is fed, untouched. Thru the Denafrips the music gains a ‘soul’. A type of seductive gravity pulses within the rhythms. The Rotel Tribute cd playing George Bensons, ‘Walking to New Orleans’ is a revelation in PRAT, in musical intent. Powerful, syncopated, balanced heartbeats, conjure a myriad rhythmical playground upon which musical events unfold. Listening becomes a joyous celebration, a moving experience, emotionally purposeful. Even very modest speakers become efficient messengers. The Elacs, being very neutral, really come alive and just let everything thru, breathing and bouncing music into the room. The Zu’s sound big, bold and a bit seductive. I really like them both, yet totally different designs and presentations. I’m liking the amps quite a bit…
 
Iluzun said:
I’ve had the Hestia & Hyperion in house for a week, so really they are just breaking in. The first 3 days were a bit up and down. So far they match up nicely with a pr. of Zu dirty weekends and a bit more surprisingly, a pr. of the Elac DFR52s. I’ve also swapped in a Mystere PA40 for the Hyperion, off the rca outs, with no problems and great sound. Nice having both hooked up. I haven’t gone the ‘Denafrips dac route’ yet, as I run a Benchmark Dac3 as my preamp. Now, the Dac3 feeds a pr. of the Hestia’s 2 balanced inputs. Hestia only has 1 pr. of rca inputs so I run my vinyl rig into those. This has resulted in a really happy ‘surprise’ I had wondered about going in. My vinyl rig, a VPI Traveler, Dynavector 20XL, Bob’s Sky step-up, Eat Glo Petite, has taken on the positive aspects which the Denafrips ‘house sound’ brings. Music has more weight, bodily presence, instrumental textures and deep tonal colors. The Benchmark Dac3 as a preamp is not lean; but robust, clean, clear, & uncolored. As a pre it passes what it is fed, untouched. Thru the Denafrips the music gains a ‘soul’. A type of seductive gravity pulses within the rhythms. The Rotel Tribute cd playing George Bensons, ‘Walking to New Orleans’ is a revelation in PRAT, in musical intent. Powerful, syncopated, balanced heartbeats, conjure a myriad rhythmical playground upon which musical events unfold. Listening becomes a joyous celebration, a moving experience, emotionally purposeful. Even very modest speakers become efficient messengers. The Elacs, being very neutral, really come alive and just let everything thru, breathing and bouncing music into the room. The Zu’s sound big, bold and a bit seductive. I really like them both, yet totally different designs and presentations. I’m liking the amps quite a bit…
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Thanks for your feedback - much appreciated.
 
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Yank said:
Let me rephrase then - what are you giving up, sonically, if you "settle" for the Hermes?
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Only heard Iris vs Hermes and the Hermes was _maybe_ a couple of percent better.

Also bear in mind that with a Terminator plus or 2, you can use the clock input to feed the DAC clock to the DDC (supposedly the best sounding set up). Thus there is no advantage to the better clock in the Gaia as you are bypassing it.
 
Iluzun said:
I’ve had the Hestia & Hyperion in house for a week, so really they are just breaking in. The first 3 days were a bit up and down. So far they match up nicely with a pr. of Zu dirty weekends and a bit more surprisingly, a pr. of the Elac DFR52s. I’ve also swapped in a Mystere PA40 for the Hyperion, off the rca outs, with no problems and great sound. Nice having both hooked up. I haven’t gone the ‘Denafrips dac route’ yet, as I run a Benchmark Dac3 as my preamp. Now, the Dac3 feeds a pr. of the Hestia’s 2 balanced inputs. Hestia only has 1 pr. of rca inputs so I run my vinyl rig into those. This has resulted in a really happy ‘surprise’ I had wondered about going in. My vinyl rig, a VPI Traveler, Dynavector 20XL, Bob’s Sky step-up, Eat Glo Petite, has taken on the positive aspects which the Denafrips ‘house sound’ brings. Music has more weight, bodily presence, instrumental textures and deep tonal colors. The Benchmark Dac3 as a preamp is not lean; but robust, clean, clear, & uncolored. As a pre it passes what it is fed, untouched. Thru the Denafrips the music gains a ‘soul’. A type of seductive gravity pulses within the rhythms. The Rotel Tribute cd playing George Bensons, ‘Walking to New Orleans’ is a revelation in PRAT, in musical intent. Powerful, syncopated, balanced heartbeats, conjure a myriad rhythmical playground upon which musical events unfold. Listening becomes a joyous celebration, a moving experience, emotionally purposeful. Even very modest speakers become efficient messengers. The Elacs, being very neutral, really come alive and just let everything thru, breathing and bouncing music into the room. The Zu’s sound big, bold and a bit seductive. I really like them both, yet totally different designs and presentations. I’m liking the amps quite a bit…
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That's a killer high value system you put together. Hats off. Great VFM and I would imagine good balance between the components.

That being said I would be very curious to hear about your evaluation of a denafrips dac vs. your current benchmark. The benchmark is no slouch obviously.
 
yuckyamson said:
That's a killer high value system you put together. Hats off. Great VFM and I would imagine good balance between the components.

That being said I would be very curious to hear about your evaluation of a denafrips dac vs. your current benchmark. The benchmark is no slouch obviously.
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Thnx, yes I’ve my eye on the Pontus II. All of my components are in the same relative price ballpark. The Benchmark may even b the most costly. It’s been a great piece and has offered superb form, function, and versatility. The usb running Roon Roc from a nuc has been top notch. Yet perhaps, passing no color, is still a color. Preamps seem to put there own character stamp on everything and I wondered what a bit more ‘character’ would provide? I got a chance to hear a Benchmark amp in my rig and while really very nice it was still more of an intellectual exercise than a guttural response. Great for classical. The Benchmark preamp also has a wonderful form factor and sounds as clean as the mountain air. An all Benchmark system would really be very nice and easy to live with. Just guessing I would say that a Denafrips dac would bring more ‘dimensionality’, more presence, body, bite, and soul, while retaining the detail and musical coherence of the Dac3. That’s what I guess. The Denafrips amps are Prat machines, they have drive and swing, they have character& texture, they flat out boogie! The ‘Walking to New Orleans’ disc I mentioned prior is ‘nice’ thru the Dac3 into my prior amp direct, a Yamaha A-S2000, nothing wrong with it, really quite good, yet run thru the Tribute cd/Hestia/Hyperion it becomes ‘demo material’, w/snarl, bite, and balls. The same for Herbie Hancock’s Crossing lp or Bobby Hutcherson’s Tone Poet releases thru the Hestia, they just gain an organic sense of flow and timing, pace, dynamic commitment, really very pleasurable. Both the Hyperion and the Mystere sound very good, the tube amp seems as if fueled by adrenaline, more so then when the Dac3 drives the Mystere direct. I’m not sure as of why as of yet. It’s not any quieter, as there is still a slight hiss into efficient speakers at idle, but there is more drive for sure…
 
JTC said:
It’ll be interesting to hear how much it transforms more modest DACs
Click to expand...

The GAIA DDC makes a big difference to the relatively modestly priced Ares II @ £800 :)

I would say the GAIA DDC is along the lines of the audio equivalent of the Hubble telescope fix for digital signals feeding DAC's :) The GAIA DDC enables DAC's to breathe freely and the result is that everything simply snaps into focus :cool:
 
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