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Denafrips Ares II thoughts

That's great, but has anyone here actually done this? I'd feel a helluva lot better if someone could confirm how that worked out...
 
Just picking up on this. How do you know that the import duties will be paid? Surely they are raised when the item enters the UK? And is the 'EU Vat Included' actually relevant to a (sadly Brexited) UK import? Not meaning to be contrary, but I'm genuinely interested in buying a Pontus II and if I thought that the overall, all-in cost to me was £1500 I would take a chance on it, but if there's a chance to be hit by further duties etc., or have to then pay UK vat on top of that, then that'd be a different story...

In an ideal world I could demo a unit, sale-or-return, for a known UK price, but having asked around it seems that most Denafrips units are special orders that then may not qualify for returns, so it's a punt in the dark either way....

All this said and done, if it genuinely is £1416 delivered, no further fees to pay, it's a very compelling option to buy direct. But I've always tried to involve UK dealers for new purchases, provided the differential isn't vast. £1900 is not a huge markup if that £1416 then requires an additional 20% UK VAT (taking it to £1700-odds for a direct import), however, but I'm not clear on this (hence my post).

Yes, as above. Since Brexit, the government set up a system where VAT can be paid by the retailer through the carrier, and all vat, duty charges etc are covered in that by the retailer to avoid delays at customs etc. The retailer charges you for this at point of sale as an option, It works perfectly fine.

The price is exactly what it will be delivered to your door. I've bought plenty like thus (and sold plenty to Europe through my business), not from Vineshine, but they use the same system as everyone else. If it concerns you , purchase with credit card (as you should on any online/distance purchasE) so you have protection if you don't receive everything as advertised, including payment terms.

I believe Vineshine juse DHL, so there wont be any major customs clearance delays as all the paperwork is handled prior to it landing.

The only downside and why you may opt to pay £500-£600 more from the UK is if there is a warranty claim in the future, you only have to pay to return it to the UK, buying direct, you have to pay the carriage to Singapore for the repair. I''ll take my chances for saving £500! Plus you will have standard 180 days cover with your credit card anyway, should Vineshine try to be funny about repairs etc.

Keep an eye on the exchange rate also, it did get it down to £1360 a few weeks ago, and I nearly bit myself :)

Maybe we could team up and see if we can get a deal on two units?
 
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Yes, as above. Since Brexit, the government set up a system where VAT can be paid by the retailer, and all vat, duty charges etc are covered in that by the retailer to avoid delays at customs etc. It works perfectly fine.

I believe that is only for EU manufactured goods? Anything made from non EU countries like Denafrips, as it is manufactured in China, is also charged import duty as well as VAT plus a customs handling charge.
 
I believe that is only for EU manufactured goods coming from EU retailers? Anything made from non EU countries like Denafrips, as it is manufactured in China, is also charged import duty as well as VAT plus a handling charge.

Yes and no, there are also 'rest of world' systems, which Denafrips/Vineshine use with their carrier, and this is all included in the charge set by the company. It's essentially the carrier that handles this, and charges the company. We as a customer pay the amount at point of sale.

There are NO additional charges if this system is utilised whatsoever. Everything is covered in the charge you pay additionally at point of sale, as highlighted on the Vineshine website.

For example, I purchase a lot of nutritional supplements for resale and personal use, and Garden of Life, in the States, use the same system with DHL. I have no additional charges when the cargo hits the UK , the price given is delivered to my door, no additional VAT, duty, handling charges etc.

It was a wise move tbh, as it has reduced lots of time for customs to often assess consignments if they disagree with the amount declared, there is transparency from companies as sale receipts are included with the customs info, reduces the whole 'gift' and $15 value items when the real value is much higher etc.

I believe the only reason the UK sellers of these are that much higher, is that that is their profit and vat on the profit. The trade deals they have with Denafrips isn't very good, so they have to charge big markup.

Im short, if you can't get a good trade deal, don't deal. Its not the companies issue, they just hide re-sellers markups.
 
Unbelievable that the manufacturer offers this when they have appointed a UK supplier. I am sure the UK supplier must be delighted seeing this. It also tells me all I need to know about the company...

The company, I am sure would be aware of it before trading, its very transparent and visible on the Vineshine website. If they didn't see it, then they havent done their research. If they did, they probably felt they could take a punt on selling them.

i could sell them on ebay for £1700 and make £250 a unit. Thats actually quite tempting given their popularity…
 
Wouldn't it be more efficient, to put the magic of a DDC (wonderful what marketing can come with) right in the DAC rather than needing a separate box etc? Getting very cynical, so someone please send me a DDC so that I can be convinced of the OMGodness over my current laptop into MDAC setup.

I was very sceptical about DDC's. Thought about it for a few months and then decided to take a punt on the GAIA DDC. Glad I did. Based on my brief experience of the GAIA DDC with an Ares II DAC and our clients feedback of the GAIA DDC with a D-02X so far so good.

Btw, my full reaction on first hearing the benefits of the GAIA DDC was WTF, OMG and WOW. A pleasant surprise and then some.
 
should Vineshine try to be funny about repairs etc.

I understand they are very good when it comes to repairs, but you are going to have to pay return carriage
I don't think Muscicraft are over-charging, he is allowing customers to dem/compare against other brands, and I would think he would do a home installation for anyone not confident enough in this new fangled digital age: He's got to make a little bit for putting up the money in the first place and for his time, how many on here are working for free
 
I've purchased from both Alvin (Vinishine) and Rik (Musicraft), they are both good guys charging fair prices.

Not everyone wants to purchase from overseas without a more "traditional" dealer service, kudos for Rik (and Willow tree audio) to bringing them in to the UK...the price has to be higher as they are not charities.
 
I understand they are very good when it comes to repairs, but you are going to have to pay return carriage
I don't think Muscicraft are over-charging, he is allowing customers to dem/compare against other brands, and I would think he would do a home installation for anyone not confident enough in this new fangled digital age: He's got to make a little bit for putting up the money in the first place and for his time, how many on here are working for free

I mentioned in my first post that return carriage would be needed if bought direct for repairs.

I don't think any mentioned anything about anyone overcharging?

I actually asked Musicraft what the benefits where buying from them, and about a returns policy, but they didn't respond.

If people feel that paying the premium is worth it for the service they receive from a UK dealer then that's their choice entirely, if they are happy doing so, nothing to lose really. No one is judging anyone on this thread I don't believe, just showing the options available for purchase.

Are Musicraft offering home demo's then of these? You mention that they are allowing people to demo etc.

For me, I don't need someone to install a DAC for me, and Im happy to take the risk regarding repairs, so I'm personally better buying direct, others would prefer to buy from a UK dealer and pay the markup, so they have that option and get whatever benefits the UK dealer offers - which is also cool.

But I am definitely thinking sbout taking the punt on doing some eBay deals on these for sure, but I fear like MHDT was, their popularity will fizzle out fairly quickly. There has been a lot of these Pontus units for sale as used recently according to Hifishark.
 
I have a home demo/sale or return of a Pontus lined up with Musicraft once a unit is available. And I wouldn’t want to purchase otherwise, as I explicitly intend to compare it against other models (I’ve already had several other models here for demo, and I intend to try at least the Sugden DAC as well as the Pontus before deciding).

So buying from the other side of the planet and knowing I may well have the hassle of a return or of selling it on isn’t an enticing prospect for me.

That being the case, paying a bit more for security, warranty, and to be able to take it back to a place a hour up the road rather than on a different continent is worth it for me.

Different strokes, and if anything it’s good for prospective buyers that there are different ways to go about it.
 
There has been a lot of these Pontus units for sale as used recently according to Hifishark.

Are you surprised? Chip manufacturers are updating and changing their designs continuously so manufacturers are having to play catch up all the time. When a new chip comes out it is already out of date. It's the same for a lot of semiconductors too. Being a manufacturer of digital products is a mugs game unless you are a big company with a huge turnover...
 
Are you surprised? Chip manufacturers are updating and changing their designs continuously so manufacturers are having to play catch up all the time. When a new chip comes out it is already out of date. Being a manufacturer of digital products is a mugs game unless you are a big company with a huge turnover...

The Pontus 2 is fairly new out though? I agree though, is it that chip production ceases so manufacturers have to change design? hence we then see Mk2 , Mk3, Mk4 etc? These aren't streamers or anything that requires firmware to evolve at the same rate as technology, just plain old dacs.

Im not personally concerned with getting the latest and bestest etc but there has been plenty of these Pontus 2 for sale already, I've been offered 4 units already from my wanted add, all wanting near enough close to the cost of a brand new unit (if bought direct). Mind boggles why so many get shifted on...

You don't see, say, many Naim ND5 XS2's for sale, and I imagine they have sold a heck of a lot more units.

But the price points are more attractive if the performance is as genuine as it sounds, we can't all afford the (starting at) £3500 Tron DACS of yours Graham as much as I would like one!
 
Chip issues Dac wise are the AKM models, micro controllers (I had to buy 500 from Digikey to obtain the amount for our new products) some dc<>dc converters, the odd opto coupler and some LDR's
Luckily I did purchase enough of the 4499eq's to manufacturer enough units for this year at least.

Car manufacturers seem to suffering from the big shortages at the moment as well as magentic uses (Inductors) for SMPS
 
I mentioned in my first post that return carriage would be needed if bought direct for repairs.

I don't think any mentioned anything about anyone overcharging?

I actually asked Musicraft what the benefits where buying from them, and about a returns policy, but they didn't respond.

If people feel that paying the premium is worth it for the service they receive from a UK dealer then that's their choice entirely, if they are happy doing so, nothing to lose really. No one is judging anyone on this thread I don't believe, just showing the options available for purchase.

Are Musicraft offering home demo's then of these? You mention that they are allowing people to demo etc.

For me, I don't need someone to install a DAC for me, and Im happy to take the risk regarding repairs, so I'm personally better buying direct, others would prefer to buy from a UK dealer and pay the markup, so they have that option and get whatever benefits the UK dealer offers - which is also cool.

But I am definitely thinking sbout taking the punt on doing some eBay deals on these for sure, but I fear like MHDT was, their popularity will fizzle out fairly quickly. There has been a lot of these Pontus units for sale as used recently according to Hifishark.

"I don't think any mentioned anything about anyone overcharging?" Did I say you did? My post was made to equal out the advantages/disadvantages of buying at home or abroad. I'm easy on where the individual buys from, and like you I do not need any help installing a dac. Me I'd definitely be taking the cheaper option and buying from abroad, although I don't think it would be a Deafrips model.
 
"I don't think any mentioned anything about anyone overcharging?" Did I say you did? My post was made to equal out the advantages/disadvantages of buying at home or abroad. I'm easy on where the individual buys from, and like you I do not need any help installing a dac. Me I'd definitely be taking the cheaper option and buying from abroad, although I don't think it would be a Deafrips model.

My apologies, I thought it was a comment directed at me :)

It's worth looking at Hifishark to see how many of this brand have gone resale, there are a LOT in comparison to other brands with products of the same nature.

https://www.hifishark.com/search?q=DENAFRIPS

obviously can't I comment directly without hearing, but not sure Id be taking a £1400 punt on one myself.
 
Actually, only one in the UK and it’s long since sold. Given that that’s a worldwide listing, going back a while, it’s really not a “LOT” at all IMHO…

i think we are looking at different statistics. I look at the brand and their units as a whole , regardless of location , for me it shows buyers are not keeping hold of them very long. Over 1086 listings , if you compare that to similar of another brand, its a lot. But thats just one of the things I look at if buying blind, we all research differently.
 


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