De-Naimification Complete!! I Feel Cleansed...or do I?
- Thread starter andyzeg
- Start date
Cereal Killer
432
things always sound better with an extra e 
Romulus
pfm Member
Thats the niggle usually when one auditions new audio its in a limited time, to get accustomed to a new sound I myself should 'live' with the new amplifier or whatever. Only then will I truly know or experience the new or different sound, I sometimes wonder how reviewers could describe the sound (but then most of them confirm they have lived and burned in the rewiewed component).
Ponkbutler
pfm Member
That's the mark of a good dealer: letting you audition kit for a number of days, preferably weeks, in your own home....
analogmusic
pfm Member
That's not my experience, Naim is quite addictive and pleasing musically to my ears. I can listen all day to my Naim amps.
It's not like Vitus is a alternative to Naim, it is extremely expensive, more than Naim.
And when I heard a Vitus setup, I wasn't too impressed either, nothing special at all to my ears.
Suffolk Tony
Aim low, achieve your goals, avoid disappointment.
Not to mine either but, hey, it's different and folk want different. Vive le difference. Things are only expensive if you can't afford them or you prefer the sound of something cheaper.
analogmusic
pfm Member
Chacun a son gout.... yes.
Mike Reed
pfm Member
Of course, this is about the comparison and consideration for change between Naim and Vitus, both being solid state. The o.p., to my recollection, is going from a relatively lowly Naim combo to something higher up the scale, as Vitus prices start at a higher level.
Going from Naim to a well-chosen valve outfit would effect a definite presentational change, even if 'Naim-like' E.A.R. is chosen. This would be much less costly, too. Valves are not everybody's cup of tea, but (unless Vitus adds something extra) I could neither revert to Naim or in fact to solid state Mind you, valves and DIY 'Eidolons (?) may not gel, and amplification matching with speakers is pretty important, i.m.o.
Going from Naim to a well-chosen valve outfit would effect a definite presentational change, even if 'Naim-like' E.A.R. is chosen. This would be much less costly, too. Valves are not everybody's cup of tea, but (unless Vitus adds something extra) I could neither revert to Naim or in fact to solid state Mind you, valves and DIY 'Eidolons (?) may not gel, and amplification matching with speakers is pretty important, i.m.o.
andyzeg
Active Member
Hmm...relatively lowly? In terms of quality, or price...or general opinion perhaps?
Let's look then at the equivalent modern prices for these items (new not secondhand).
I replaced :
Nac 82 - modern equivalent 282 = £ 4,500
Nap 135 x 2 - modern equivalent V145 x 2 = £5,600
Teddy Supercap = £1,400 (add nearly £2,000 to that if opting for a Naim Supercap)
Total price (approx) = "11,500 (or about £13,500 with Naim SC)
with....
1 X Vitus Audio RI-100 = £9.500
Now because I am not that well off...I bought all my gear at secondhand prices...and my Naim items were pushing 20 years old...although all were serviced. But it's not easy to try and equate prices of used equipment...so a new equivalent comparison is the easiest option.
As they say....do the math....
And my "DIY" Eidolons....individually designed and built to an impeccable standard and most assuredly sound at least as good as and possibly even better than a pair of originals.
Apart from all that...I agree with much of what you say...and personally, I am a lover of valve amps too, having been weaned on them so to speak. In fact, I am considering a valve option in my short list of replacements for the Vitus.
Cereal Killer
432
That's 4 very good power supplies verse 1.
This sounds like somebody is never happy with what they've got.
Upgrade-itis can be the most expensive thing of all.
Mike Reed
pfm Member
Sorry, Andy, I didn't realise it came across like that.
I'm well aware of the quality of your speakers (as per originals, prob.). Should have said 'alternative' rather than 'DIY' !Despite going up to 552/135s from 42/110 donkeys' years ago before changing, the 82 is only about half-way up. Power supplies do bump things up, though; box count as well !. I thought that ALL Vitus stuff was way above £10K, though.
I do have a healthy interest in Vitus, and the fact that you're familiar with valved kit means that your take on things after the trial will be well anticipated.
I thought you had just got the Vitus amp? You are already considering a tube amp to replace the Vitus?
Not too sure how long you have owned the Naims but I have had mine for 8 years now and expect to live with the system for another good 10 years or more. The amps may just outlive me. I have no intention to explore other alternatives anymore (it's a jungle out there) as the current system gives me great listening pleasure every time I turn the music on. The fact that I bought all the gear new last year did help with my resolution of staying put.
I am glad the Vitus worked out for you. I can understand that people need a change at some point in their lives so it is not a surprise to move from the Naim especially if one has lived with it for a considerable period of time. It's good to have a new experience once in a while, that if you enjoy the new experience. The Vitus does appear to be high pedigree and I am sure the quality would be up there among the best, if not the best. Does the Vitus sound more like music or hifi? Although the Naim does not have the most detailed or transparent sound, it does sound like music to me. I have the NAC 282, HCDR and NAP 250 DR.
andyzeg
Active Member
Sorry, Andy, I didn't realise it came across like that.
Despite going up to 552/135s from 42/110 donkeys' years ago before changing, the 82 is only about half-way up. Power supplies do bump things up, though; box count as well !. I thought that ALL Vitus stuff was way above £10K, though.
I do have a healthy interest in Vitus, and the fact that you're familiar with valved kit means that your take on things after the trial will be well anticipated.
No worries Mike....I didn't mean to come across as "miffed"..sorry.
There is some very lovely and humongously (?) expensive Vitus gear too...as indeed with many other brands..including Naim of course.
I'm actually looking at a few more valve possibilities now as the very thought of them brings a "warm glow" to me.... and some of the more modern and more powerful offerings are well worth considering. I may, however stick with solid state...depending on what comes along.
Some of the options I have studied are :
Power & Pre Amps
Chord 4000
Bryston 14b SST
Rogue Audio (valve) M180 or Apollo (pricey tho.)
Classe
Pass Labs (run hot!)
YBA
AudioValve (beautiful!)
VTL (valve)
The world is my lobster as Del Boy would say! (within financial means of course!).
Oh...and to prove my valve credentials...here are some pics of my previous amps...for hobby purposes really...yes, I went through a crazy phase!
analogmusic
pfm Member
Another former Naim user:
I swapped my Naim DAC for the Teddy V-DAC, making a slight profit even though I bought a brand new Teddy unit. No regrets, the Teddy sounded better.
Then my Naim 250.2 was replaced by a pair of Teddy monos. Of all the amp changes I made over the years none yielded such a large improvement as the change to Teddy's monos. I think I made a profit on this swap too.
I expect that my Teddy kit will not retain value like the Naim kit. But it sounds a lot better for less outlay. My interest in hi-fi is to use it to enjoy music, not to engage in never ending equipment upgrades. This is why Teddy beats Naim in my mind
I swapped my Naim DAC for the Teddy V-DAC, making a slight profit even though I bought a brand new Teddy unit. No regrets, the Teddy sounded better.
Then my Naim 250.2 was replaced by a pair of Teddy monos. Of all the amp changes I made over the years none yielded such a large improvement as the change to Teddy's monos. I think I made a profit on this swap too.
I expect that my Teddy kit will not retain value like the Naim kit. But it sounds a lot better for less outlay. My interest in hi-fi is to use it to enjoy music, not to engage in never ending equipment upgrades. This is why Teddy beats Naim in my mind
I've had quite a few bits of Naim up to 552/300 and have also owned Teddy Pardo before switching to Vitus now.
Sound for money wise the Teddy Pardo stuff is the best one to get! I loved the presentation of it but was at this time looking for a more forwarding sound, that's why I switched back to Naim again.
When climbing up the Naim ladder, I always though about what's next - better amp, DR my NAP 300, switch to Chord cables etc. At the end my room was quite similar to the one from my hifi dealer - too many boxes and cables and always in my mind that Naim can sound better.
Some months ago I was sad of all this cable dressing and upgrading and I toke the decision to trade-in my beloved Naim against Vitus. One single box againts four naim boxes. It was not that easy to decide between RI-100 or SIA-025, but at the end I was switching to the SIA-025 straight on. Here in Switzerland we don't own a dealer, so listen before buying wasn't an option to compair both amps.
Finally since a few weeks I'm listening to music with my Vitus and on first listening session, I was shocked about the much wider and deeper soundstage Vitus gave. Also the bass was very different and more enjoyable as I was always fighting with bass boom in my squared room. The soundstage isn't that present and forward as before, but I can listen now much longer to music.
Currently I'm feeding my Vitus SIA-025 with a Bluesound Node 2 connected to Exogal Comet DAC - maybe soon I will replace the Exogal DAC by Vitus RCD or SCD, but this isn't the most important. I was choosing Bluesound Node as it supports Qobuz, Spotify and other streaming services.
Also a big improvement gave me placement of my rack and Vitus on Stillpoints/Finite Elemente supports - the loudspeakers disappeared now completely and also the bass is more controlled.
Sound for money wise the Teddy Pardo stuff is the best one to get! I loved the presentation of it but was at this time looking for a more forwarding sound, that's why I switched back to Naim again.
When climbing up the Naim ladder, I always though about what's next - better amp, DR my NAP 300, switch to Chord cables etc. At the end my room was quite similar to the one from my hifi dealer - too many boxes and cables and always in my mind that Naim can sound better.
Some months ago I was sad of all this cable dressing and upgrading and I toke the decision to trade-in my beloved Naim against Vitus. One single box againts four naim boxes. It was not that easy to decide between RI-100 or SIA-025, but at the end I was switching to the SIA-025 straight on. Here in Switzerland we don't own a dealer, so listen before buying wasn't an option to compair both amps.
Finally since a few weeks I'm listening to music with my Vitus and on first listening session, I was shocked about the much wider and deeper soundstage Vitus gave. Also the bass was very different and more enjoyable as I was always fighting with bass boom in my squared room. The soundstage isn't that present and forward as before, but I can listen now much longer to music.
Currently I'm feeding my Vitus SIA-025 with a Bluesound Node 2 connected to Exogal Comet DAC - maybe soon I will replace the Exogal DAC by Vitus RCD or SCD, but this isn't the most important. I was choosing Bluesound Node as it supports Qobuz, Spotify and other streaming services.
Also a big improvement gave me placement of my rack and Vitus on Stillpoints/Finite Elemente supports - the loudspeakers disappeared now completely and also the bass is more controlled.