De-Naimification Complete!! I Feel Cleansed...or do I?

[Dan43]

Thanks Andrew the DAC board is indeed £2K and then creates an all-in-one integrated amp so fits the minimum box count and should be more than enough to drive the Sopra 2.

It might take a day or two for me to really tune in and properly understand what is going on, or perhaps even out the box I will hear the initial more open and detailed presentation.

Yes looking forward to really having a good listen, I have it for 2 weeks.

 

[MichaelC]

Almost there...

The Sasha's are in situ.

Vitus and Wilson, quite a stunning combination.

One more step to be taken, that will be in place next week...

 

[MichaelC]

I'm sure you will love it! Mine doesn't have the DAC but as I strictly listen to CDs...I didn't think it was worth it for me personally....but I hear it is excellent.

I may be a bit crazy trying to sell mine....but I like a change and am looking at a few monoblock options...if nothing comes of it...then you know what...I will just stick with the Vitus!

I hope you enjoy your home audition

All the best

Andrew

Andrew

Stick with the Vitus. Try different speakers... Simply based on my recent experience...

 

[Ponkbutler]

Thanks Andrew the DAC board is indeed £2K and then creates an all-in-one integrated amp so fits the minimum box count and should be more than enough to drive the Sopra 2.

It might take a day or two for me to really tune in and properly understand what is going on, or perhaps even out the box I will hear the initial more open and detailed presentation.

Yes looking forward to really having a good listen, I have it for 2 weeks.

I'd also be very interested to hear how you get on. I've tried various alternatives to Naim in the hope of reducing the box count and generally simplifying things, but not heard anything so far that floats my boat. Vitus is next on my list to audition as soon as I can free some time up.

 

[Dan43]

Here goes had the Vitus running last night and this morning only so still getting used to what it does, so very different from NAIM presentation as to need a little time I feel

Vitus with DAC board.

Perhaps the main differences here are the presentation and what this amp is doing that NAIM does or doesn't.

I did notice an uplift in performance overall when I moved the NAIM and Focals to the other end of the room, better than before but not a massive change.

I then plugged in Tellurium Black speaker cable to NAIM and noticed a different presentation certainly, bit more bass control, slightly more rounded as such, but a shift rather than a real change.

Then I plugged in the Vitus with USB DAC.

The new presentation and delivery felt so much different as to feel too much initially, so I think I will need a few days to really get into the sound.

But initially far more in the mids being dug out, highs are more prominent but not too harsh (SL was very harsh initially), bass joins in just right and so far I can equate to the initial thoughts when a tried Super Lumina, just too much going on, but in a much different way.

There is a lot more being presented to the listener, vocals are more rounded and slightly warmer, sound staging is so different.

Lots really going on so will need these few days to settle into it.

First thoughts are : it is so different to what I am used to that I need to really sit down and evaluate, but I am really hearing much much more than I did before. It is all being played back though in such a different manner that it needs understanding, for me.

Piano keys sound so close now, vocals staged more fluidly for me. Do I like what I am hearing? Foot is tapping but just this last overnight and today hearing I'm just getting used to how much more is there.

Real test is when I settle into what the Vitus does then plug the 272/250DR back in.

So far so very interesting

 

[andyzeg]

Real test is when I settle into what the Vitus does then plug the 272/250DR back in.

So far so very interesting [/QUOTE]

Thanks for the update so far Dan! And really, you have described my response to the Vitus when compared to my previous Naim amplification (82 plus 135s).

It took me a little time to adjust to the different presentation...but I soon appreciated the change. I had the luxury of being able to switch between amps and after a while...the lovely Naims were just left switched off to one side. The soundstage and mid range were what really swung it for me...and yes...the piano! I noticed that too.

I hope you continue to enjoy your trial with the Vitus..it will be interesting to hear further insights from you.

All the best

 

[ssimon]

The new presentation and delivery felt so much different as to feel too much initially, so I think I will need a few days to really get into the sound.

For me, it's doing something wrong if it takes any time to get used to it.
If it's an improvement, you'll notice it immediately.
My first thought is "Why didn't it sound like this before?"

 

[Dan43]

For me, it's doing something wrong if it takes any time to get used to it.
If it's an improvement, you'll notice it immediately.
My first thought is "Why didn't it sound like this before?"

It is an improvement almost instantly noticeable, but I need to really try and fully appreciate what all this extra information is relaying to me and my way of listening.

Much more in the mids, very revealing, layers I hadn't heard before, opening up the taps more. Soundstage very different, and better for me. Guitar strings sound more noticeable, wringing longer, more natural, but quite up and forward a little more.

Reminds me of the HCDR on a SN2, just opening up more layers, more mids without question.

Feels more fluid in delivery, but a few days listen will narrow down what I am listening to more coherently. So far it is as if I have added 555DR, HCDR, Super Lumina to a NAIM system but in one box.

 

[ssimon]

It is an improvement almost instantly noticeable, but I need to really try and fully appreciate what all this extra information is relaying to me and my way of listening.

It should just sound natural, like music to your ears, not like "Hi-Fi".
Of course more enjoyable.

 

[Dan43]

It should just sound natural, like music to your ears, not like "Hi-Fi".
Of course more enjoyable.

Yes thats what I'm hoping for. So far the staging and general melting away of the speakers.

Just doing some room/speaker positioning but just as they are the sound so far is just so different, and initially a lot better, very much different though.

Natural would be one word to use. The guitar on the start of Pinball Wizard sounds so vibrant.

 

[heihei]

For me, by far the biggest shift was how long I wanted to listen to music. With the Naim, I rarely got past one album. With the Vitus I was losing sleep due to late night listening.

 

[Suffolk Tony]

For me, by far the biggest shift was how long I wanted to listen to music. With the Naim, I rarely got past one album. With the Vitus I was losing sleep due to late night listening.

So why did you buy Naim in the first place?

 

[Cereal Killer]

For me, by far the biggest shift was how long I wanted to listen to music. With the Naim, I rarely got past one album. With the Vitus I was losing sleep due to late night listening.

Funny for me it's the exact opposite. The TV doesn't get much use these days, in fact Its the most engaging system I've had in the past 10 years, the amount of new music I've purchased is possibly the best indication of all.

 

[heihei]

So why did you buy Naim in the first place?

Good question. In hindsight I didn't spend enough time listening to the system I initially bought into, particularly the speakers (Ovator S600's), in my listening room. I then went through the usual upgrade path to the point where I felt I wasn't getting the listening enjoyment that was commensurate with the amount I'd spent on the system, hence the change in direction.
Don't get me wrong - I've very much enjoyed my time with Naim and it's brought some fantastic musical enjoyment along the way. However, for many of the reasons highlighted in this thread, I felt it was time for a change.

 

[Romulus]

I used to own a modest Naim system. What I remember from it that it presented the involvement of musicians (mostly in bands) very well, things like the Progues (you hear the banjo, piano etc) or Santana (the guitar, percussion, bongos) all came over very convincingly, realistic, it was musically very involving. Other hifi systems can do the same, some with a lot more resolution still musically involving with huge sound stage and depth but not in that Naim way, that toe tapping way. I can see why there still be a cult like following, where upgrades are proposed and discussed in great detail with scant regard to cost (Who talks about costs in such hallow brand?) Also I note there are quite a few musicians who own modest naim systems because they feel that the representation of the music is closest to what they experience when playing in a band. However despite all above I fully understand if someone wants something different or extra. Naim sound does have that added extra (like Red bull)which makes it all sound a little up tempo (in a slight hysterical fashion) and if money is no object get a system which just reveals the recording and nothing else..!

 

[Mike Reed]

For me, it's doing something wrong if it takes any time to get used to it.
If it's an improvement, you'll notice it immediately.

I disagree; A-B testing may work for you, but the only thing I notice when changing kit is the difference. It needs considerable listening through all sources to evaluate those differences. I may be initially struck by more involvement factor or whatever, but proper discernment with many genres of music in addition to sources is needed; at least at the higher end, which we're discussing here.

A Case in point. When I replaced my top-of-the-range ProAc Response Fours with large Quad electrostatics, the DIFFERENCE was immediate, but it took a few months of becoming acclimatised to the least bass response I've had in many decades but the most transparent and fast mid and treble. Only when I reverted to the ProAcs did I realise that the bass I'd cherished for 50 years was not really so important !

 

[Dan43]

Good question. In hindsight I didn't spend enough time listening to the system I initially bought into, particularly the speakers (Ovator S600's), in my listening room. I then went through the usual upgrade path to the point where I felt I wasn't getting the listening enjoyment that was commensurate with the amount I'd spent on the system, hence the change in direction.
Don't get me wrong - I've very much enjoyed my time with Naim and it's brought some fantastic musical enjoyment along the way. However, for many of the reasons highlighted in this thread, I felt it was time for a change.

Almost exactly the same here. Bought into NAIM and went the route from initial interest and lower end of their range to an NDS, very much hooked. But as my knowledge increased I began to feel like I was constantly chasing boxes, upgrades, power supplies, Super Lumina and so forth, and though I couldn't afford all this kit (I mean 2 x 555PS-DR at £14K to really reveal what the NDS can do) plus 500DR and 552 and so on I went the other way, downgraded to 272/250DR as that was the end of that line except for a PSU.

So I changed direction and found a whole new strata of equipment I wasn't really looking at before as I was so much a NAIM person and the level of kit I was looking at (Devialet etc which I tested with the NDS) I was at the pinnacle of that level.

Now trying Vitus, Burmester and indeed looking at used Tidal (fanciful but hear me out) is very exciting and finding new sound presentations and staging is brilliant for the education and development of my own enjoyment of music.

NAIM is great at what it does, front foot forward punchy drive but for me the Vitus is revealing another way.

Also I can now see the value in a range like Tidal. No upgrades, not extra kit, just buy one of their boxes and thats the best it will hopefully ever be, where with NAIM the need for constant this and that, upgrade this, change to the other, is endless.

The amount of money spent chasing the perfect NAIM system could be double the investment of buying one item from another supplier (how many have bought Statement as that is NAIM end game line)

For me it is discovering new ways of listening to the same music, NAIM just got very tiring to listen to, for me.

 

[Dan43]

I disagree; A-B testing may work for you, but the only thing I notice when changing kit is the difference. It needs considerable listening through all sources to evaluate those differences. I may be initially struck by more involvement factor or whatever, but proper discernment with many genres of music in addition to sources is needed; at least at the higher end, which we're discussing here.

A Case in point. When I replaced my top-of-the-range ProAc Response Fours with large Quad electrostatics, the DIFFERENCE was immediate, but it took a few months of becoming acclimatised to the least bass response I've had in many decades but the most transparent and fast mid and treble. Only when I reverted to the ProAcs did I realise that the bass I'd cherished for 50 years was not really so important !

+1 here too.

This Vitus amp is so very different to NAIM, yes the immediate differences are acute, but thoroughly understanding what I am hearing may take a while to fully appreciate and understand.

I can't think of an analogy, but imagine someone reading you a Shakespear play at speed, yes it feels better (language etc) but to really appreciate the nuances of the words used you would need to read it yourself, in your own time, and then re-appreciate the subtleties of why the words were used the way they were used, and as anyone who has read one of those explanation books at school, the reasoning and choice of words and situations is longer than the original text itself (like the tennis balls gifted in Henry V takes two pages to explain why that was written)

Hope that makes sense, Shakespear would explain it all a lot more fully of course

 

[Julf]

Shakespear

The brother of Shakespears Sister?

 

[Ponkbutler]

There was more than one way to spell his name - and Shakespeare was not the way he signed it (although that was how it was printed on the first editions of his poetry).

see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spelling_of_Shakespeare's_name