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Coronavirus - the new strain XXI

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k90tour said:
Didn't we have the same ability to shut out the virus as New Zealand? I mean, taking back control of our borders, etc etc.
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The SNP government covered up the outbreak in Edinburgh (Nike Conference) in Feb 2020 before the first lockdown which ended up putting hundred of people at risk and no doubt killing hundreds more.

There was ample opportunity to restrict the movement of people and the virus at the time and afterwards, they even allowed a Europa League match with rangers and Leverkusen to go ahead on the Thursday night before the first lockdown with about 50,000 people packed into the stadium this was the night after Liverpool played Athletico Madrid in Liverpool and thousands of Spanish (Madrid) fans were allowed into the country.

Madrid too, unbelievable.
 
mandryka said:
Of course. Every country in the whole wide world had the ability to close borders like New Zealand. Switzerland had the power to close its borders with Germany, Italy and France . . .

When NZ closed borders I guess there wasn’t much covid in the country, because NZ is quite isolated. The situation may not have been the same in the UK when we finally discovered that covid was seriously nasty, and science experts were finally saying that closing borders should be considered. I don’t know.
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The first reported cases of coronavirus here in the UK was in January 2020 with the Chinese tourists who were taken to a hotel with people wearing hazmat suits, the first Briton to become infected and then pass it on was a guy who was on holiday in Switzerland skiing over the Christmas period, think he had travelled there from China and subsequently infected all of the people he was with.

https://bfpg.co.uk/2020/04/covid-19-timeline/
 
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twotone said:
The first reported cases of coronavirus here were in the UK was in January 2020 with the Chinese tourists who were taken to a hotel with people wearing hazmat suits, the first Briton to become infected and then pass it on was a guy who was on holiday in Switzerland skiing over the Christmas period, think he had travelled there from China and subsequently infected all of the people he was with.

https://bfpg.co.uk/2020/04/covid-19-timeline/
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That's a nice website. It looks to me as thought he disease was significant in the UK by the end of February 2020. At that time, was any expert scientist recommending border closures as a containment policy?
 
gavreid said:
We've had about 7.5 k deaths over the summer compared to about 1.5 k last summer despite the vaccination programme as a consequence of letting cases run away...
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This is such a mystery to me and I've spent time really trying to think about it but I'm getting nowhere. Why are there so many deaths in Britain compared with other European countries like France?

What appears to be happening is this (focussing on France) : we have more people going into hospital than the French, and we have less people ending up intensive care. But in the UK a (much) higher proportion of those who do go into intensive care are dying. It's as if, maybe due to the way we've vaccinated, the people who do go into hospital are more vulnerable, more likely to die.

But I have no explanation really for this mystery. And I don't believe it's just a consequence of letting the virus run away -- though clearly if we'd closed up more, there'd have been less deaths.
 
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mandryka said:
That's a nice website. It looks to me as thought he disease was significant in the UK by the end of February 2020. At that time, was any expert scientist recommending border closures as a containment policy?
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No idea but by the date below they must have known this thing was going to get out of control and should have restricted all travel in and out of the country but by then the horse had bolted.

That Nike conference in Edinburgh was held on the 26th & 27th of February and the dogs in the street in Washington Tyne and Wear knew who the guy who was infected was that weekend and Nike shut their headquarters in the Netherlands at the time of the outbreak but the Scottish government kept quiet about the outbreak.


March 4th 2020

  • Cases of Covid-19 surge in the UK, as officials announce the biggest one-day increase so far as 34 cases bring the total to 87
 
mandryka said:
This is such a mystery to me and I've spent time really trying to think about it but I'm getting nowhere. Why are there so many deaths in Britain compared with other European countries like France?

But I have no explanation really for this mystery. And I don't believe it's just a consequence of letting the virus run away -- though clearly if we'd closed up more, there'd have been less deaths.
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I have also pondered this but keep coming back to the way the UK reports COVID deaths vs other countries. We seem to love assigning COVID where ever possible and our very high testing regime must also contribute.
 
twotone said:
The first reported cases of coronavirus here were in the UK was in January 2020 with the Chinese tourists who were taken to a hotel with people wearing hazmat suits, the first Briton to become infected and then pass it on was a guy who was on holiday in Switzerland skiing over the Christmas period, think he had travelled there from China and subsequently infected all of the people he was with.

https://bfpg.co.uk/2020/04/covid-19-timeline/
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NZ did not close borders until 20th March 2020.
 
NigelP said:
I have also pondered this but keep coming back to the way the UK reports COVID deaths vs other countries. We seem to love assigning COVID where ever possible and our very high testing regime must also contribute.
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Something really elusive is happening.
 
mandryka said:
This is such a mystery to me and I've spent time really trying to think about it but I'm getting nowhere. Why are there so many deaths in Britain compared with other European countries like France?

What appears to be happening is this (focussing on France) : we have no more people going into hospital than the French, and we have less people ending up intensive care. But in the UK a (much) higher proportion of those who do go into intensive care are dying. It's as if, maybe due to the way we've vaccinated, the people who do go into hospital are more vulnerable, more likely to die.

But I have no explanation really for this mystery. And I don't believe it's just a consequence of letting the virus run away -- though clearly if we'd closed up more, there'd have been less deaths.
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Overrun health system, poor care in the care homes etc etc. Most people die in places where they are tested rather than at home and they die because of covid not with covid
 
gavreid said:
Overrun health system, poor care in the care homes etc etc. Most people die in places where they are tested rather than at home and they die because of covid not with covid
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What proportion of people who die of covid die in an ICU?
 
I can only speak as I find and having spent a couple of weeks in London recently and then come back to France I can honestly say that the contrast is night and day.
 
webster said:
I can only speak as I find and having spent a couple of weeks in London recently and then come back to France I can honestly say that the contrast is night and day.
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I’m not surprised about that, I live in London myself and I’ve just got back from Paris, I just don’t think it’s the explanation.
 
Let's not have the borders argument again as apparently closing our borders to everyone is somehow racist according to some on here and anyway that horse has well and truly bolted. We are pretty much ****ed as far as Covid goes courtesy of our government's inability to learn that 'wait and see' does not a good policy make!
 
My wife spent 10 days in rural France recently, having driven from Calais. She said that there was far more care and respect to social distancing. Proof of vaccination needed to use the shops at motorway services. And mask wearing everywhere. Whether by individual choice or legislation, I don't know. But here we are carrying on as if there is no pandemic. And the figures are frightening. and not at all surprising.
I'm astonished at those who were interviewed at tube stations, asked why they were wearing masks one day and not the next. The answer being that the day before, it was a legal requirement and the next day it's voluntary. So they won't. The government is happy for the NHS to take the hit.
 
The difference between UK and New Zealand is leadership. And not just in making difficult decisions, but in being able to bring the population with you as well.
 
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