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Coronavirus - the new strain XVII

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hc25036 said:
I don’t think that holds true. It’s equally likely that it’s a binary event - something in an individual’s genetics leads to the aberrant antibody being produced or not. The second dose would then have no different effect to the first.
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I have heard experts interviewed who argue this. That clotting would manifest after the first jab if it was going to, so if you have had the first jab without incident, then the second jab shouldn’t be a concern.
 
hc25036 said:
I don’t think that holds true. It’s equally likely that it’s a binary event - something in an individual’s genetics leads to the aberrant antibody being produced or not. The second dose would then have no different effect to the first.
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I'm just going on reactions generally to the second dose being stronger. For example, people in France being told not to have a second dose at all if they have contracted covid previously - that was for Pfizer. Clearly the numbers are very small as yet as second dosing progresses but I'd be interested to knbow if the German deaths were split by dose.
 
gavreid said:
I'm just going on reactions generally to the second dose being stronger. For example, people in France being told not to have a second dose at all if they have contracted covid previously - that was for Pfizer. Clearly the numbers are very small as yet as second dosing progresses.
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Is the second dose stronger? Seems unlikely there’d be two batches, different strengths.
 
gavreid said:
I'm just going on reactions generally to the second dose being stronger. For example, people in France being told not to have a second dose at all if they have contracted covid previously - that was for Pfizer. Clearly the numbers are very small as yet as second dosing progresses but I'd be interested to knbow if the German deaths were split by dose.
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Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
Is the second dose stronger? Seems unlikely there’d be two batches, different strengths.
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‘Reactions generally’ are not this aberrant immune response. All the immunity-mediated events (fever, pain etc) could be stronger on the second dose. @Sue Pertwee-Tyr think of it as the first jab setting up the immunity and getting it going and the second jab giving that response a kick up the backside to get it into 4th gear and to keep it going for longer.
 
hc25036 said:
‘Reactions generally’ are not this aberrant immune response. All the immunity-mediated events (fever, pain etc) could be stronger on the second dose. @Sue Pertwee-Tyr think of it as the first jab setting up the immunity and getting it going and the second jab giving that response a kick up the backside to get it into 4th gear and to keep it going for longer.
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Yes, that was exactly how I was thinking of it. There were also stories that if you’d previously had COVID, then your immunity after 1 jab was likely to be similar to a non COVID person’s after the second. Gav seemed to be suggesting the second dose was stronger, which felt unlikely given the logistical pressures are hard enough already without introducing a, probably unwarranted, additional complication.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
Gav seemed to be suggesting the second dose was stronger,
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No not at all - the response is stronger.

hc25036 said:
‘Reactions generally’ are not this aberrant immune response. All the immunity-mediated events (fever, pain etc) could be stronger on the second dose. @Sue Pertwee-Tyr think of it as the first jab setting up the immunity and getting it going and the second jab giving that response a kick up the backside to get it into 4th gear and to keep it going for longer.
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We'll likely know for sure by end of May perhaps - that might generate sufficient numbers to analyse and well before the 30-40s will be getting first doses.
 
gavreid said:
No not at all - the response is stronger.
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Ah, I misunderstood what you meant by ‘reactions to the second dose being stronger’. I read it as ‘the second dose, being stronger, so more reactions’ not, as you intended it ‘stronger reactions to the second dose’. My mistake.
 
Several of my colleagues have had their second AZ jab with no reaction, when they had a reaction the first time around.
 
The really serious reaction, the clots and low platelets, happened 2-4 weeks after the injection. I'd like to know what happened to the people who have survived, what sort of state are they in.
 
mandryka said:
The really serious reaction, the clots and low platelets, happened 2-4 weeks after the injection. I'd like to know what happened to the people who have survived, what sort of state are they in.
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Current advice is if reaction to jab persists after 4 days, contact GP, so that suggests early intervention is more likely.
 
Here's a timely warning from WHO

The success of Britain’s vaccine programme is not enough to protect it from another wave of coronavirus unconnected to rising cases in Europe, a senior World Health Organization expert has said... In an interview, [Dr Catherine] Smallwood said there were still a “significant number” of Covid-19 infections being reported daily in the UK, and that “very restrictive measures” were holding them down. From Monday, non-essential shops, gyms and outdoor-only pubs and restaurants will reopen across England following the third national lockdown.

...She said the tough measures that have been in place for nearly two months were “what’s keeping the cases down at the moment – it’s not the vaccination”.

“The population groups that are really driving transmission are still in the majority sense the ones that have not yet been vaccinated as a whole,” Smallwood said. “Transmission can still happen in the UK without any washing up on the shores of the European outbreak.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...e-again-despite-vaccine-progress-who-official
 
gavreid said:
Here's a timely warning from WHO

The success of Britain’s vaccine programme is not enough to protect it from another wave of coronavirus unconnected to rising cases in Europe, a senior World Health Organization expert has said... In an interview, [Dr Catherine] Smallwood said there were still a “significant number” of Covid-19 infections being reported daily in the UK, and that “very restrictive measures” were holding them down. From Monday, non-essential shops, gyms and outdoor-only pubs and restaurants will reopen across England following the third national lockdown.

...She said the tough measures that have been in place for nearly two months were “what’s keeping the cases down at the moment – it’s not the vaccination”.

“The population groups that are really driving transmission are still in the majority sense the ones that have not yet been vaccinated as a whole,” Smallwood said. “Transmission can still happen in the UK without any washing up on the shores of the European outbreak.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...e-again-despite-vaccine-progress-who-official
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What WHO are saying there doesn't seem to be totally correct, because schools were open for over three weeks, and cases reported today are very significantly below cases reported on March 8.

Unless it's the effect of the testing regime which is keeping school to community transmission under control -- but I can't see how anyone can say with any confidence.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
Current advice is if reaction to jab persists after 4 days, contact GP, so that suggests early intervention is more likely.
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I think the effect of the worrying thromboses are first perceived 2 to 4 weeks after the jab. I could be wrong about this, I think I picked it up from French telly.

Within 2 weeks, I was wrong

AstraZeneca’s COVID-19 vaccine: EMA finds possible link to very rare cases of unusual blood clots with low blood platelets | European Medicines Agency (europa.eu)
 
mandryka said:
What WHO are saying there doesn't seem to be totally correct, because schools were open for over three weeks, and cases reported today are very significantly below cases reported on March 8.

Unless it's the effect of the testing regime which is keeping school to community transmission under control -- but I can't see how anyone can say with any confidence.
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That's what experts do, it's her job to say it - independently of government...
 
I would expect all types of vaccine to have possible side effects so it is likely that others apart from AZ will turn out to have problems as they are rolled out in greater numbers . I expect which vaccine you are given will be tailored to your medical condition and age but considering the number of doses of AZ rolled out the risk does seem low
 
peter bj said:
I would expect all types of vaccine to have possible side effects so it is likely that others apart from AZ will turn out to have problems as they are rolled out in greater numbers . I expect which vaccine you are given will be tailored to your medical condition and age but considering the number of doses of AZ rolled out the risk does seem low
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indeed
 
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