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Coronavirus - the new strain XIX

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PsB said:
The "joke" is we can't visit our daughter in the UK and she can't visit us in France because HMG (the geniuses currently delivering the highest prevalence of Covid and Delta variant in Europe) has classified France as "amber plus", ostensibly because of the prevalence of the Beta variant (3% of French cases). This variant appears in French stats mostly because of La Réunion (and to a lesser extent Mayotte), islands 9000km away off Madagascar. With all the confinements on both sides of the Channel, we haven't seen her for a year and were hoping that July 19 would at least bring a little family reunion. To add to the farce, this world-beating regulation apparently has a loophole: its restrictions only apply to people coming from metropolitan France, not to people from any of the overseas bits. Incompetence, or sheer bloody-minded bureaucratic lunacy?
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None of the stupid policy changes (in both UK and France) have stopped me seeing my daughter in the UK at least every 8 weeks since my first Covid visit in May 2021.

I am currently on holiday with her in UK.

What's your problem? Is it the additional costs? That's the only real barrier I experience each time I plan a trip back to UK. Saying I can't visit my daughter would be false. Why is your situation different?
 
richardg said:
None of the stupid policy changes (in both UK and France) have stopped me seeing my daughter in the UK at least every 8 weeks since my first Covid visit in May 2021.

I am currently on holiday with her in UK.

What's your problem? Is it the additional costs? That's the only real barrier I experience each time I plan a trip back to UK. Saying I can't visit my daughter would be false. Why is your situation different?
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Well, good for you.

My understanding is that the British government still mandates a 10-day quarantine on fully vaccinated people returning to the U.K. from Metropolitan France.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-paris-france-baffled-by-uk-quarantine-change
 
Joe P said:
The reasons for not opening up the UK ought to be obvious.

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Joe
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Some very dubious colouring there.
India with the 10x excess deaths
Egypt looks a bit unlikely
In SE Asia it is a map of development and accuracy of statistics
I see reports that 8 doctors die in Indonesia every day now.
 
tiggers said:
I’d have some marginal respect for them if they were honest and just said they are going for herd immunity rather than keep lying about the science etc.
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There is not a ****ing chance 'Herd Immunity' could be achieved with an airborne, highly infectious, and lethal, virus such as Covid19 through infection! The ONLY way we will get out of this is mass vaccination
 
David,

I didn’t colour the map myself. It’s from the front page of the online NYT. I’m sure the map has some inaccuracies as any international disease surveillance data would have, but the point is that the UK is not in a place you’d expect for a country opening up.

Joe
 
PsB said:
Well, good for you.

My understanding is that the British government still mandates a 10-day quarantine on fully vaccinated people returning to the U.K. from Metropolitan France.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-paris-france-baffled-by-uk-quarantine-change
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That is a misunderstanding. There is a 5 day test to release option.

And you can quarantine for these 5 days at any address with your daughter. And she does not need to quarantine.

Hardly a huge barrier when it is family.

Also I don't see the Guardian as the best place to get your info, even if it does wait right to the end of the article to tell you about the test to release scheme. Without in fact explaining exactly what it is.

But anyway, as you were.
 
Debs said:
There is not a ****ing chance 'Herd Immunity' could be achieved with an airborne, highly infectious, and lethal, virus such as Covid19 through infection! The ONLY way we will get out of this is mass vaccination
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I know and I think it’s going to need to include children, but the government seem unable to grasp this or even understand how this virus works at a basic level despite the last 16 months. I know you are vastly more knowledgeable on this subject than I but it’s obvious even to me that opening up without the entire adult population vaccinated is just madness and hence I can only think that deep down they are still clinging to the flawed notion of herd immunity despite the fact it in all likelihood cannot be achieved at a practical level with the virus now having an R0 of around 8.
 
Tony L said:
Not good at all round here. I went to Asda earlier and I’d say at least a third of the staff and customers had no masks or concept of social distancing.

To my mind Tories have succeeded, we are now in the crazy libertarian/Darwinist ‘herd immunity’ strategy they sought from the off. It will obviously impact poor and less educated areas such as the one I live in the most, but I’m sure they fully understand that. I’m double-jabbed and was wearing a proper FFP2 mask so didn’t feel too at risk for the short run I made (I needed to speak to the pharmacist hence visiting at this time, I usually go late at night). It is done. We are Brazil now.
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It could look that way, couldn't it. For some time, I've been aware that to some, the lives of 'Ordinary' people are cheap.

I've learned this at my place of work. Now that culture seems to be spreading to others in different occupations.

The Pandemic and all the shit that goes with it appears to have shown more and more people that in the eyes of some, their lives are cheap too.

Apologies if the tone is a bit 'off'. I'm feeling extremely cynical today.
 
mandryka said:
Interesting that the one which no-one seems to discuss is the one which here (and for all I know only here) has a bit of traction: vaccinate kids to reduce the probability of nasty new mutants. It looks to me as though no-one has anything more to say about this, it's a conversation killer.
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Yes, hadn’t noticed that. That “rapid response” I shared the other day argued that successful mutations are much more likely to occur in really ill people so children are less of a risk, but hc did a pretty good job of discrediting that source so I don’t know how seriously to take that. Personally I’ve concluded that if people really GAF about variants they’d be demanding equitable global distribution and manufacture of vaccines 24-7. Most of the focus is definitely on other things.
mandryka said:
Well, as far as I know it's exactly what you would expect to happen. That's to say it's sad, but it's not news, like "dog bites man" is not news.
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Also, the disease mostly spares children. So much to criticise the government for but people keep hitting that Government’s Killing Your Kids button even though it’s not wired up to anything.
 
Interesting, I’ve never gone to a historian for medical advice before, let alone one who burps up radicalised language such as ‘zero coviders’.
 
They Aussies are also sort of on the money re. the AZ vaccine as it's between 60 and 70% effective against Delta as opposed to Pfizer that seems to be 88-92% effective according to various medical studies.
 
More shit from Patel:

Priti Patel is asked by committee chair and Labour MP Yvette Cooper about the spread of the Delta variant of COVID-19 and why the UK's border policy, in her words, failed to stop it spreading.

Ms Patel says the system "has not failed" and describes it as a "comprehensive system" across government.

The home secretary says the UK is able to spot variants of concern and then take action.

"How can you possibly say it didn't fail?" Ms Cooper fires back.

Ms Patel repeats her assertion that the country has a "comprehensive, end-to-end system".

Ms Cooper then asks why it took a full week for India to be put on the red list, given advice the government received from a SAGE sub-group.

The home secretary replies that it is "entirely wrong" to suggest the government delayed putting India on the red list, telling MPs that it was given that designation before the Delta strain was designated as a variant of concern.

Ms Cooper says Ms Patel's answers are "troubling" and "I don't think there's anybody in the country" who thinks the border policy has worked with regards to the Delta variant.
 
Tony L said:
Interesting, I’ve never gone to a historian for medical advice before, let alone one who burps up radicalised language such as ‘zero coviders’.
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Oh Jesus. This is some amazing vicarious gatekeeping. You don't need to be a "virologist/epidemiologist" to observe and comment on interesting social and political behaviour, and some historical knowledge may even be of benefit here.

These particular developments actually demonstrate pretty well why a narrow biological focus is counterproductive. Yes, AZ might be less effective. But if you campaign against it so strongly that you convince people that it is *ineffective*, and there are times when AZ is all that you have, then you've owned yourself, and killed people. It's a case of "the best being the enemy of the good" (and yes I am enjoying this opportunity to mouth centrist homilies). This is why experts in politics, psychology, sociology etc. as well as ordinary people contribute to public health policy.

It's odd, this refusal to consider the possibility that there's more than one way of feeding anti-vaxx sentiment: it's not all coming from the religious right you know.
 
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